Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[marhawkman]

I read that as it came out. Gonna have to disagree about it being pretty good though.


EDIT:
Out of curiosity, I looked into it...Tenth Circle, JLA: Scary Monsters, and Superman/Wonder Woman: Whom Gods Destroy seem to be the only times Chris Claremont has tackled Wonder Woman.

WOW, that is a BAD track record. Woof.

Hmm... Well, it had a few major flaws to be sure. #1 was... how the --- did Crucifer managed to take down that many League member so fast? that was the big thing. Crucifer managed to enthrall Superman and use him as a puppet... and stuff like that. I feel it'd have been better if the Super-Vampire ritual hadn't been left to the final fight. bonus points though: the people turned into super-vampires, were all said to be latent meta-humans, thus explaining why they had super-powers as vampires. Well, beyond the usual. Neat idea, but barely got used. The core of the story was threat of a vampire apocalypse, which was quite scary actually.

But one can fairly compare it to the animated film Batman vs Dracula... where Batman solos the entire vampire cabal. Crucifer had resources and power.. but.. it was a huge stretch for him to be able to challenge the entire League. Hence why he had to use Superman as a beating stick. If Crucifer had tried to 1v1 WW he'd probably have lost. He actually claimed to be unable to turn her and Superman because their blood was weird. In Superman's case his cells contain solar energy, so drinking his blood is like drinking sunlight. WW's case was seemingly a callback to the clay statue origin. IE she's not a true flesh-and-blood person, thus vampire stuff just doesn't work on her.

Interesting ideas, but, yeah, how is this a threat to the entire League?

[hareluyafan1]

He actually claimed to be unable to turn her and Superman because their blood was weird. In Superman's case his cells contain solar energy, so drinking his blood is like drinking sunlight. WW's case was seemingly a callback to the clay statue origin. IE she's not a true flesh-and-blood person, thus vampire stuff just doesn't work on her.

Interesting ideas, but, yeah, how is this a threat to the entire League?

No offense but that's a misconception. WW is a "true flesh and blood" person. True, she was sculpted out of clay but when the Goddesses breathed life into her she was transmuted into flesh and blood. His inability to turn her is due to her being partly of divine nature.

[Gaius]

Beg your pardon but from what I've heard that's not entirely accurate.

True, it wasn't Taylor's idea to make Injustice Diana a villain (that was NetherRealm Studios), but from what I understand in the original game she's kind of just... 'generic evil counterpart.' It was Taylor's writing in the tie-in comics which really pushed the notion that Diana was the real evil that had manipulated and corrupted Superman into a tyrant.

Yeah, he had a lot more leeway in the comics than he or his fans like to admit. Or at least use as an excuse for any dumb creative decisions in the comics that he doesn't want to cop to.

Original game definitely had her wanting to bang Clark in a one-sided attraction (because I guess that's the only way the supposed great writers of DC else worlds know how to write WW) but her being this devil on the shoulder that keeps pushing him? That is all him and something the sequel was happy to run with, which he liked the brag the game writers looked at his prequel comics.

[hareluyafan1]

Yeah, he had a lot more leeway in the comics than he or his fans like to admit. Or at least use as an excuse for any dumb creative decisions in the comics that he doesn't want to cop to.

Original game definitely had her wanting to bang Clark in a one-sided attraction (because I guess that's the only way the supposed great writers of DC else worlds know how to write WW) but her being this devil on the shoulder that keeps pushing him? That is all him and something the sequel was happy to run with, which he liked the brag the game writers looked at his prequel comics.

That's it. Thanks for clarifying.

[marhawkman]

No offense but that's a misconception. WW is a "true flesh and blood" person. True, she was sculpted out of clay but when the Goddesses breathed life into her she was transmuted into flesh and blood. His inability to turn her is due to her being partly of divine nature.

Well, IIRC, that's not what Crucifer said. But one could use the idea that Crucifer had never tasted that kind of blood before and all he really knew is what it tasted like to him.

[Felipe Silveira]

I wonder if this is for Johns or Didio (Marvel Defenders, Al Ewing)
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And if Ewing went to DC, which comic would you like to see him write?

[Stanlos]

Hmm... Well, it had a few major flaws to be sure. #1 was... how the --- did Crucifer managed to take down that many League member so fast? that was the big thing. Crucifer managed to enthrall Superman and use him as a puppet... and stuff like that. I feel it'd have been better if the Super-Vampire ritual hadn't been left to the final fight. bonus points though: the people turned into super-vampires, were all said to be latent meta-humans, thus explaining why they had super-powers as vampires. Well, beyond the usual. Neat idea, but barely got used. The core of the story was threat of a vampire apocalypse, which was quite scary actually.

But one can fairly compare it to the animated film Batman vs Dracula... where Batman solos the entire vampire cabal. Crucifer had resources and power.. but.. it was a huge stretch for him to be able to challenge the entire League. Hence why he had to use Superman as a beating stick. If Crucifer had tried to 1v1 WW he'd probably have lost. He actually claimed to be unable to turn her and Superman because their blood was weird. In Superman's case his cells contain solar energy, so drinking his blood is like drinking sunlight. WW's case was seemingly a callback to the clay statue origin. IE she's not a true flesh-and-blood person, thus vampire stuff just doesn't work on her.

Interesting ideas, but, yeah, how is this a threat to the entire League?

He has no problem with WW's blood and found the taste of both Supes and other alien foul because of its alien flavour. WW with the clay origin was never NOT "true" flesh and blood. When WW fought the enslaved Supes and the three vampyrs it was really her. But a ruse was in play when Crucifer tried to turn WW later after "she" took an L from Superman.

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[marhawkman]

He has no problem with WW's blood and found the taste of both Supes and other alien foul because of its alien flavour. WW with the clay origin was never NOT "true" flesh and blood. When WW fought the enslaved Supes and the three vampyrs it was really her. But a ruse was in play when Crucifer tried to turn WW later after "she" took an L from Superman.
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20221103_142948.jpg

Enh... this doesn't say WHY Crucifer spit out green stuff it has that part of the page cropped off :/

[Guy_McNichts]

I think there is interesting potential in the premise of the heroes dealing with vampires. But, for one, it would need to be a smaller scaled and infinitely more clever/thought out story. Because, as others have pointed out, there is no believable way vampires pose a legitimate threat to the Justice League. For every new issue of DC vs. Vampires that comes out, the discussion thread turns into a list of all the ways the plot simply does not work or make sense.
Vampires can make for a cool story, but it's not going to be the apocalyptic "fate of the world" story DC vs. Vampires or 10th Circle try to be.

But that's really what bothers me about DC vs. Vampires in particular. There are lots of interesting ideas and things you could do with the premise. Ideas the series gleefully skips over to tell a bog-standard slog about street level heroes led by Batman and/or Green Arrow (plus one or two powered characters, usually Supergirl and/or Mary Marvel) against the easily corrupted powerhouses. Just like Injustice. Just like DCeased.

Or, in the case of 10th Circle...a backdoor set-up for the Doom Patrol and Claremont's pet characters, who he and Byrne were clearly way more interested in writing. That was why Superman gets mind controlled (as usual) and Wonder Woman gets taken out and dumped on the side of the road halfway in.

The misuse of Wonder Woman in these stories particular grates. If she's not part god, she's blessed by multiple gods. Her weapons (the Lasso and Bracelets) are forged by gods. She should be walking, talking vampire repellent.

I've said this before, but imagine if in DC vs. Vampires, Diana gets turned into a vampire, but the Lasso helps her retain her free will and humanity, like it's supposed to. So she's trying to help her allies even as her bloodlust grows. And go a step further, if the Lasso--due to its divine nature--harms vampires the same way holy water or a crucifix does, suppose it hurts her even as it helps her resist her vampiric nature? More drama.

She should be one of the most compelling characters in this story, but the writers can't be arsed. The Lasso is instead completely disregarded and she just becomes a horny slave to King Dick.
Meanwhile Damian and other Bat-related characters can resist vampirism just 'cause. Probably because they don't have powers, because that seems to be the dominant theme of DC Comics: heroes with powers are inherently inferior to any and all Bat-characters in every way.


Anyway...vampires are cool, but DC's use of them (and Wonder Woman) sucks. Probably not a controversial opinion.

[Stanlos]

Enh... this doesn't say WHY Crucifer spit out green stuff it has that part of the page cropped off :/

The green stuff is the clue. Wonder Woman's blood is not green. It is red. Jonn Jonzz disguised himself as Wonder Woman. The earlier page points out that Supes blood tasted bad to him because it was alien even though it is same color as hours. Jonn's is even more foreign.

Do you see?

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[Stanlos]

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[Stanlos]

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[Stanlos]

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Here ya go! This should give you the full context. You can see the difference in the performance of WW¹ and WW²
You can also see the difference in Crucifer's response to Kryptonian blood and Martian blood which supports my statement that the Martian blood was even more alien; so alien was the Martion blood that Crucifer lost his concentration and released Superman so severe was his reaction to the green stuff.

As for Claremont I think he has the potential to be good if under a strong editor with a strong style bible. The reason the substitution worked as a reader was I fully expected WWs healing and training to literally enable her to shake that off as she had done versus Deva. I also was thinking of the Amazons healing arts whether the Perez moss-like stuff or the legendary Purple Healing Ray.

But Claremont was like, Nope!

[marhawkman]

Screenshot_20221104-023225_Kindle.jpg

Screenshot_20221104-023310_Kindle.jpg

Here ya go! This should give you the full context. You can see the difference in the performance of WW¹ and WW²
You can also see the difference in Crucifer's response to Kryptonian blood and Martian blood which supports my statement that the Martian blood was even more alien; so alien was the Martion blood that Crucifer lost his concentration and released Superman so severe was his reaction to the green stuff.

As for Claremont I think he has the potential to be good if under a strong editor with a strong style bible. The reason the substitution worked as a reader was I fully expected WWs healing and training to literally enable her to shake that off as she had done versus Deva. I also was thinking of the Amazons healing arts whether the Perez moss-like stuff or the legendary Purple Healing Ray.

But Claremont was like, Nope!

Hmmm, ok I guess I missed a few bits there.

[WonderLight789]

DC has been pretty underwhelming for years. Outside of batman they have no real plan. Pure inconsistency with origins, power sets, supporting casts etc. After dark crisis ends. Their next event should be called DC crisis. Because they have been going from one big the end of the universe event to another, and nothing of substance ever comes out of all these universal crisis and retcon events.