Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[josai21]

It was the n52 that basically developed this opinion for me. We had characters moving forward and then the n52 retconned them all back to the status quo. It really screwed over a lot of character growth.

[Frontier]

YJ just really makes me want to see Weisman on a Titans show, and JUST the Titans. Or see what this version of the Wonder Woman or Flash or Captain Marvel properties looks like.
It has everything, but isn't that satisfying because it's not laser focused on one property. Spectacular Spider-Man focused on one corner of the MU, and was IMO much stronger for it. And it had lots of progression and potential for growth in its short two seasons.

Weisman on a Flash show would be interesting.

I know he's a fan of the property and he has good handle on The Flashes and Iris.

Captain Cold was a pretty minor and inconsequential villain but he wasn't really a focus on the show.

Weisman doesn't care for the Speed Force, so it would be interesting to see a Flash show that didn't revolve around it.

[byrd156]

It was the n52 that basically developed this opinion for me. We had characters moving forward and then the n52 retconned them all back to the status quo. It really screwed over a lot of character growth.

This 1 million percent. I don't see a majority DC characters recovering from this reboot anytime soon.

[Dred]

This 1 million percent. I don't see a majority DC characters recovering from this reboot anytime soon.

My favorite example is how it took Barry Allen 8 years to get to the exact same point he started at in 1956 with regards to his situation as a person and a hero. He didn't get knocked back to square one, he got knocked back to square negative 20.

[Frontier]

My favorite example is how it took Barry Allen 8 years to get to the exact same point he started at in 1956 with regards to his situation as a person and a hero. He didn't get knocked back to square one, he got knocked back to square negative 20.

I'd still in the negative when it still seems like a struggle for him to move past the whole "dead mom" nonsense, and it's still a major albatross hanging over the Flash franchise.

[KC]

I knew my opinion was controversial, but wasn't expecting 3 pages of it.

I just like seeing character progression, not stagnation or worse, regression.

Characters and the universe can progress without forcing the "Silver Age" generation from giving up their mantles. As long as there are good stories being told with these characters and people to tell good stories with them, I think DC will never be "stagnant"

[Jackalope89]

Characters and the universe can progress without forcing the "Silver Age" generation from giving up their mantles. As long as there are good stories being told with these characters and people to tell good stories with them, I think DC will never be "stagnant"

Well, we keep having younger heroes getting de-aged so that ones like Batman don't hit the 40 year old mark and what not. Or just plain axed.

[Dred]

Characters and the universe can progress without forcing the "Silver Age" generation from giving up their mantles. As long as there are good stories being told with these characters and people to tell good stories with them, I think DC will never be "stagnant"

You're right. Jay and Alan should take over their titles so long as there's good stories being told with them.

[byrd156]

You're right. Jay and Alan should take over their titles so long as there's good stories being told with them.

I'd read an Alan or Jay solo book.

[KC]

Well, we keep having younger heroes getting de-aged so that ones like Batman don't hit the 40 year old mark and what not. Or just plain axed.

The only time the younger generations have been de-aged since Bruce's generation has returned is the New 52. DC can progress the characters from Bruce's generation and the younger generations at the same time.

[KC]

You're right. Jay and Alan should take over their titles so long as there's good stories being told with them.

DC can tell stories about Jay, Alan, Barry and Hal at the same time as long as there are good stories to be told about these characters.

[SiegePerilous02]

Well, we keep having younger heroes getting de-aged so that ones like Batman don't hit the 40 year old mark and what not. Or just plain axed.

They've really only been de-aged with the New 52, along with everyone else, and now everyone is roughly back at the same age they were pre-Flashpoint. None of the DC writers, even before DiDio, were in any rush to age any characters up to begin with.

They get axed. So simply stop axing them, bring them back, and quit adding generations when clearly none of them are going anywhere and we can't afford to keep crowding things and making each group redundant.

DC can tell stories about Jay, Alan, Barry and Hal at the same time as long as there are good stories to be told about these characters.

And it would be easier with the original Earth-1/Earth-2 set up that DC foolishly go rid of for this forced generational thing that only really applied to the JSA and Infinity Inc. The Titans really aren't THAT much younger than the JL and don't need to go anywhere for them to flourish.

And I maintain that if you have to get rid of successful independent characters for these other characters to work, then these other characters are weaker and cannot stand on their own, so why bother with them? If they are as versatile as people say they are, let them branch out and find niches of their own. DC needs to put some creative effort into this and fans need to be receptive and go out there and actually support it if its good.

[Dred]

They've really only been de-aged with the New 52, along with everyone else, and now everyone is roughly back at the same age they were pre-Flashpoint. None of the DC writers, even before DiDio, were in any rush to age any characters up to begin with.

They get axed. So simply stop axing them, bring them back, and quit adding generations when clearly none of them are going anywhere and we can't afford to keep crowding things and making each group redundant.



And it would be easier with the original Earth-1/Earth-2 set up that DC foolishly go rid of for this forced generational thing that only really applied to the JSA and Infinity Inc. The Titans really aren't THAT much younger than the JL and don't need to go anywhere for them to flourish.

And I maintain that if you have to get rid of successful independent characters for these other characters to work, then these other characters are weaker and cannot stand on their own, so why bother with them? If they are as versatile as people say they are, let them branch out and find niches of their own. DC needs to put some creative effort into this and fans need to be receptive and go out there and actually support it if its good.

The Titans were originally like 15-20 years younger than their mentors but constant retcons and rebooting have shrunk that number. And no, Deku, it is not just the New 52. Wonder Woman's reboot shrunk her and Donna's age gap. Born to Run made Wally 13 instead of 10 when he and Barry teamed up (and later, Flash Rebirth 1.0 shrunk their ages to the point where now, somehow, Iris and Barry were the same age as Wally magically). The New 52 completed it with the ridiculous shrinking of the Batman family.

Again, you can't use this argument when Hal and Barry are the ones using other characters' names. If Barry is as amazing and iconic as you say he is let him branch out and find his own niche instead of, I don't know, literally reusing Wally concepts like Speed Force and lightning rods and flash family and blah blah. It's blatantly hypocritical.

[SiegePerilous02]

Lol the Titans were originally like 15-20 years younger than their mentors but constantly retcons and rebooting have shrunk that number. Which includes the Earth-1/earth-2 merger.

The first major reboot was with COIE despite some smaller retcons/slide timescales along the way. Before that, Dick was college aged while Bruce was in his 30s. It's closer to your stated 15 years, if not a smaller gap. I'd generally say a decade at most for most of the mentors/sidekicks. The age difference isn't that big.

That merger shouldn't have happened. It didn't exactly result in its stated goal of a cleaner continuity. In fact, it was quite the opposite.

Again, you can't use this argument when Hal and Barry are the ones using other characters' names.

No, I very easily can when Jay and Alan haven't been viable leads since the 1940s. They were dead properties along with the rest of the superhero genre that wasn't the Trinity. Barry and Hal were revamps in a new continuity that overhauled the basic concepts Jay and Alan introduced. Hal's GL mythos in particular has nothing to do with Alan. It is not the same as when Barry and Hal got phased out for Wally and Kyle. Wally had Barry's costume, shared Barry's history and fought Barry's villains, he wouldn't have any connection to Jay without the post-Crisis merger, beyond stories where he could have crossed over the Multiverse.

Kyle continued on with the same continuity established by Hal, the GL mythos was scrapped with a new continuity with a new overhaul of the GL concept. Hal then came back and lead the most successful period the GL property has ever enjoyed.

Yeah, they kept the same numbering. That ceases to matter when you read the actual stories and see Barry meet Jay across the multiverse as a parallel peer, not a predecessor.

[Dred]

The first major reboot was with COIE despite some smaller retcons/slide timescales along the way. Before that, Dick was college aged while Bruce was in his 30s. It's closer to your stated 15 years, if not a smaller gap. I'd generally say a decade at most for most of the mentors/sidekicks. The age difference isn't that big.

That merger shouldn't have happened. It didn't exactly result in its stated goal of a cleaner continuity. In fact, it was quite the opposite.



No, I very easily can when Jay and Alan haven't been viable leads since the 1940s. They were dead properties along with the rest of the superhero genre that wasn't the Trinity. Barry and Hal were revamps in a new continuity that overhauled the basic concepts Jay and Alan introduced. Hal's GL mythos in particular has nothing to do with Alan. It is not the same as when Barry and Hal got phased out for Wally and Kyle. Wally had Barry's costume, shared Barry's history and fought Barry's villains, he wouldn't have any connection to Jay without the post-Crisis merger, beyond stories where he could have crossed over the Multiverse.

Kyle continued on with the same continuity established by Hal, the GL mythos was scrapped with a new continuity with a new overhaul of the GL concept. Hal then came back and lead the most successful period the GL property has ever enjoyed.

Yeah, they kept the same numbering. That ceases to matter when you read the actual stories and see Barry meet Jay across the multiverse as a parallel peer, not a predecessor.

Barry wasn't a viable lead in the 80s. But they still brought him back. Heck, Hal was not a viable lead in the 70s, as seen by his dang comic becoming a Flash backup before Barry's fall.

Their properties were on their way to being dead when they reimagined them instead of just letting them die. I don't get how you can't grasp this, how you pretend that Barry and Hal were always great and successful and that's what sets them apart from Jay and Alan. I do not get why you are creating this distinction that doesn't even support your point.

But if carrying on someone else's mythos is really your criteria for being a loser character who can't stand on their own and should just get their own identity and start all over from square one, then boy that accounts for Barry. Dude has relied more of Wally's original content than Wally ever did his.