Page 35 of 332 FirstFirst ... 253132333435363738394585135 ... LastLast
Results 511 to 525 of 4968
  1. #511
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    2,536

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by josai21 View Post
    I agree that good stories can be told even when time is slowed. That's not something rational people would disagree with. The problem, and this somewhat unique to DC, is when the story continues for decades and always returns to the status quo. Any change is an illusion. It's not real. It breaks the suspension of disbelief for the reader. It reminds you that you are not actually in this fictional world. This awareness caused by the story is bad story telling.

    Any "changes" bruce has experienced over the past ten years are an illusion. IF Bruce had married Selina and that story had become a permanent part of his character, I would concede the argument. But he didn't. It was a return to status-quo. The truth is I can leave Batman issues for ten years, come back, and nothing will have changed. That's not good story telling.

    The N52 destroyed so much growth for these characters. They were finally moving forward. I don't buy Batman comics anymore because there is zero reason to be invested.

    Snyder's run doesn't matter.
    King's run doesn't matter.

    It will all return to the status quo in a few years.

    That's bad storytelling.
    Just to touch on this as a beautiful full circle, the last major status quo change in Batman that has and will continue to stick for the forseeable future is...Damian Wayne Robin. A change that was ushered in because Dick was a different kind of Batman which necessitated growth and change not just in Batman, but in the world around him.

    Amazing how that happened.

  2. #512
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Just to touch on this as a beautiful full circle, the last major status quo change in Batman that has and will continue to stick for the forseeable future is...Damian Wayne Robin. A change that was ushered in because Dick was a different kind of Batman which necessitated growth and change not just in Batman, but in the world around him.

    Amazing how that happened.
    I think it helped that the concept of Batman's biological son as Robin was very palpable and Damian really grew on people under Morrison and Tomasi's pen (and, to a lesser extent, Bryan Q. Miller).

    (Still kind of screwed Tim over though).

  3. #513
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    2,536

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it helped that the concept of Batman's biological son as Robin was very palpable and Damian really grew on people under Morrison and Tomasi's pen (and, to a lesser extent, Bryan Q. Miller).

    (Still kind of screwed Tim over though).
    Damian is Damian because Dick is Dick. Morrison made that clear as day. There's a reason Damian is so absent in Batman with Bruce -- they don't work that great together because they're so alike.

    Maybe we would've eventually gotten Batman's son as Robin, but Damian as a character is not coincidental.
    Last edited by Dred; 02-01-2019 at 12:50 PM.

  4. #514
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    15,234

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by josai21 View Post
    Wait 20 years and we will see if you have the same opinion when Bruce is younger than you are.
    My dad was more of a Marvel reader when he was growing up, but I don't think it ever bothered him that the characters stopped aging. Because he stopped reading them and moved on to other things, but could re-live them when Peter Parker was brand new to me in the 90s. Similarly, he watched the Lois & Clark show (though largely I suspect for Teri Hatcher lol) and not once did he complain about these two leads who were created a decade before he was born being the same age as they were back then and being played by actors younger than he was.

    Somewhere along the way, comics became for adult fans who just couldn't let go instead of being passed down to younger kids (both older properties and new). That's a bigger problem than Bruce not aging. It's not his problem we can't move on and expect his formula to change.

    Quote Originally Posted by josai21 View Post
    Lack of progression robs any story of risk and enjoyment. It is not a good story. I’ll give that it can be entertaining, but spongebob is entertaining. I’d like to think Batman is worth more thought and story telling than mindless humor.
    The iconic characters, especially the Trinity and the likes of Spider-Man, are probably closer to Spongebob than you'd think. Especially when they move a lot of merchandise outside of the comics and have no trouble getting younger fans in those settings.

    Batman clearly has a lot of worth, or else we wouldn't get a wide variety of takes and adaptations. He is bigger than any one narrative. He's more like a timeless folk hero than a character in a serialized soap opera setting. If he and his major players can be seemingly endlessly adapted in different ways, they are clearly very versatile no matter how old they are. BTAS is different than Adam West is different than Burton is different than Nolan and will be different than Reeves, but it's all fresh and new, especially to younger audiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverWarriorWolf View Post
    I just realized this argument is over whether or not comics should progress like manga.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I've seen that argument before but I think the difference with comics and manga is that the creative process is so different with the shifting creative teams, shared universe aspect, and the different way editorial is involved in for comics compared to manga.
    They are run way too differently. The big two cannot ever be like Manga. Kantaro Miura will (God willing, some day...) finish Berserk, and that will be it. He plots the beginning, middle and end. There won't be another writer coming on after him to do a follow up run that shakes things up and passes the roles to other characters. Any such thing will be done by Miura himself, and there are no fill in writers/artists along the way. The majority of Manga, as far as I know, is like this. The creators of the the major DC and Marvel characters let go of the characters LONG ago, and there are too many subsequent creators to count with no finite story telling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    And, on a personal level, I love Jojo's Bizarre Adventures but I don't need the comics I read to have to change the main character every so often.
    Yes, I've never read the series but I'm aware of its legacy aspects. That's very interesting, but also easier to do in a self contained series by one author who presumably has an end point in mind.

  5. #515
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Damian is Damian because Dick is Dick. Morrison made that clear as day. There's a reason Damian is so absent in Batman with Bruce -- they don't work that great together because they're so alike.
    Damian's character was established before Dick was Batman. It just developed more when he became Robin and continued to develop even after Dick wasn't Batman.

    I think that's just more to do with writers these days not seeming all that interested in writing Batman and Robin together, or developing the father/son dynamic. Especially with Damian off on the Teen Titans and King's Batman's time being spent 90% with Catwoman.
    Maybe we would've eventually gotten Batman's son as Robin, but Damian as a character is not coincidental.
    But...we did get Batman's son as Robin? That's like, a big part of his character .

  6. #516
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    2,536

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Damian's character was established before Dick was Batman. It just developed more when he became Robin and continued to develop even after Dick wasn't Batman.

    I think that's just more to do with writers these days not seeming all that interested in writing Batman and Robin together, or developing the father/son dynamic. Especially with Damian off on the Teen Titans and King's Batman's time being spent 90% with Catwoman.

    But...we did get Batman's son as Robin? That's like, a big part of his character .
    The entire point of Damian as Robin is to be the broody, dour contrast to Dick's amiability. We don't get that with Bruce. Damian could've gone in different directions as a character had he not been a perfect fit as a Robin beside Dick. That is my point. It's expressly stated by Morrison.

    I don't think Damian and Bruce compliment each other very well. Too much of the same attitude and tone.

  7. #517
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    The entire point of Damian as Robin is to be the broody, dour contrast to Dick's amiability. We don't get that with Bruce. Damian could've gone in different directions as a character had he not been a perfect fit as a Robin beside Dick. That is my point. It's expressly stated by Morrison.
    I definitely agree that Damian needed Dick as Batman to really come into his own as Robin, but I think now we're at a point where I think he can work with Bruce well if writers are actually interested in using him in that capacity.
    I don't think Damian and Bruce compliment each other very well. Too much of the same attitude and tone.
    I don't think Damian works as well with Bruce as Tim did, but I think they have a serviceable dynamic, especially because of the father/son relationship and how alike they are.

  8. #518
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    15,234

    Default

    I honestly don't see too many similarities between Bruce and Damian.
    The contrast is definitely not as noticeable as it is between Bruce/Dick, Bruce/Tim or Dick/Damian, but I don't view them as too similar either. Then again, I don't like takes of Bruce that are overly dark and broody, so pairing my preferred take on Bruce with his wonderfully unbearable little brat of a son still results in an interesting dynamic.

    Damian needed that initial time with Dick to really take off as a character though, but I don't think it's necessary to keep Dick as Bats to keep that going. Damian has proven to work well with Dick when the latter is Nightwing, as seen in Seeley's run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Damian is Damian because Dick is Dick. Morrison made that clear as day. There's a reason Damian is so absent in Batman with Bruce -- they don't work that great together because they're so alike.
    I think it has more to do with Snyder and King being more interested in their own creations and inexplicably shilling Duke in particular instead of devoting page time to Damian.

    Online fans, at least on here, have been pretty vocal with wanting Damian with Bruce.

  9. #519
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    2,536

    Default

    Yeah man, what fans want matters.

    I'm just telling you the reason it is not the case from deduction of Damian's character role relative to Bruce and the writers.

  10. #520
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,538

    Default

    Barry Allen = Takeshi Hongo; Wally West = Hayato Ichimonji

    Not sure where that leaves Jay Garrick.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Buried Alien - THE FASTEST POST ALIVE!

    First CBR Appearance (Historical): November, 1996

    First CBR Appearance (Modern): April, 2014

  11. #521
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Barry Allen = Takeshi Hongo; Wally West = Hayato Ichimonji

    Not sure where that leaves Jay Garrick.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I guess he has to be V3 (Although I guess in sequence Bart would be V3) .

  12. #522
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    4,154

    Default

    BTAS is boring to me, I'm trying to make it through season 1 but i'm having a hard time. It's weird because I grew up with this series but now that i'm older I can't do it.

  13. #523
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    3,731

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    BTAS is boring to me, I'm trying to make it through season 1 but i'm having a hard time. It's weird because I grew up with this series but now that i'm older I can't do it.
    I always thought that STAS was better than BTAS for the reason you mentioned.

  14. #524
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    4,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I always thought that STAS was better than BTAS for the reason you mentioned.
    I've enjoyed the STAS episodes I've seen recently more than the BTAS ones, it was the opposite when I was little.

  15. #525
    Astonishing Member CellarDweller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Essex County, NJ
    Posts
    2,972

    Default

    This isn't my "controversial opinion", but I found this on YouTube, this guy is going off on the preview of the preview of the Wonder Twins book. He says this is a propaganda piece promoting globalism, socialism, and he comments on "subliminal messages" as well as the 'night that throbs with pleasure' and whether or not all of this is appropriate for a comic that will be read by children.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6Nd...ature=youtu.be

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •