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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Anyone who says the modern DCU (by Geoff Johns et al) is a revival of the "Silver Age" was not alive in the actual "Silver Age."
    That's controversial? That's just true!

    Sandy Hausler

  2. #62
    Gaurdian Of The Universe comicstar100's Avatar
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    Story will always be more important than continuity

    Infinite Crisis was a good ending for E2 Superman

    Superboy Prime is a amazing villain

    If Christan Bale would of stayed on as Batman the DC shared film universe would of been a success

    New 52 Earth 2 was solid

    The Titans should take over as the main DC Heroes and the Justice League should retire
    Last edited by comicstar100; 08-09-2018 at 10:17 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by comicstar100 View Post
    Story will always be more important than continuity
    I don't know what that means. For example, I just watched A QUIET PLACE, it's not part of a series but in watching that you have to construct a continuity in your head for the world they exist in and that's part of the story. So story and continuity are the same thing or at least so tied together it's hard to separate them out like yolks and egg whites.

    A continuity-less character would be like Bugs Bunny in the Looney Tunes and Merry Melodies shorts that were originally shown in theatres before longer movies. Those are constructed in a such a way that you don't need to know Bugs Bunny's "origin story" (if he has one) and he can transcend time and space. The only thing he takes with him from short to short is some common tropes. You could even imagine that it's a Bugs Bunny multiverse, where every time you see him you see a different Bugs. But even there, inside the short itself there is a continuity that is being constructed as the story moves forward.

    Then when Bugs gets his own comic book or TV series, the writers need to construct a back story for him that gives all the episodes a continuity. On THE BUGS BUNNY SHOW, there was a framing device for the old cartoons where Bugs was re-imagined as an actor/celebrity--he hosted the whole program (with Daffy Duck) and there were scenes, in between the shorts, where Bugs has a consistent character. So even for the shorts that all existed in their own continuity bubbles, the writers had to construct an over-arching continuity to make sense of this world.

    It seems to me that, if a writer doesn't think about continuity on some level, the story falls apart. It's the glue that holds individual ideas together. So I return to this, that continuity and story are harder to divide than the nucleus of an atom.
    celebrating 50 years of 4 beatles crossing a zebra

  4. #64
    Spectacular Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
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    1. Children sidekicks risking their lives with unrelated adult superheroes is an ill-advised relic of a more innocent age. Barring modern interpretations which are more intelligent, that whole trope should be dropped. It's kept alive by old fans who grew up with it.

    2. There are too many duplicative characters, especially in the major "families". There should be 1-2 Flash characters at most. And that also applies to Green Arrow, Earth-based Green Lanterns, Batman sidekicks and Superman sidekicks too.

    3. The reason #2 continues is due to the direct market, longtime fans, and DC's knowledge that if they trot out longtime JLA or Teen Titans characters periodically, they keep x-thousand readers plunking down for books - even though the likelihood of something meaningful being done with that character is really, really small.

  5. #65
    Mighty Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverWarriorWolf View Post
    Honestly, Wally’s my Flash because he was the one who introduced me to the character in the Justice League cartoon, just like how John Stewart is my Green Lantern for the same reason.

    I have to wonder how many are like me.
    I'd say anybody in their 20's should be in the same boat (like me), unless you mean "favorite" when you say "my". Barry's my favorite even though I didn't know he existed until much later.
    Reading list: Miles Morales: Spider-Man (Marvel), Ironheart (Marvel), Champions (Marvel), Jessica Jones: Purple Daughter (Marvel), Runaways (Marvel), Young Justice (DC), Naomi (DC), Justice League Odyssey (DC), My Hero Academia (VIZ), Bitter Root (Image), Quincredible (Lionforge), Buffy the Vampire Slayer Reboot (BOOM!)

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Poison Ivy is a better Circe than Circe.

    Babs as Oracle is DC's collective bad conscience made, well not flesh and bone, but at least a visible representation.

    Superhero tales need a moral dimension at some interval, otherwise they devolve into edgelord power fantasies or unthinking conservatism.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Ellingham View Post
    1. Children sidekicks risking their lives with unrelated adult superheroes is an ill-advised relic of a more innocent age. Barring modern interpretations which are more intelligent, that whole trope should be dropped. It's kept alive by old fans who grew up with it.

    2. There are too many duplicative characters, especially in the major "families". There should be 1-2 Flash characters at most. And that also applies to Green Arrow, Earth-based Green Lanterns, Batman sidekicks and Superman sidekicks too.

    3. The reason #2 continues is due to the direct market, longtime fans, and DC's knowledge that if they trot out longtime JLA or Teen Titans characters periodically, they keep x-thousand readers plunking down for books - even though the likelihood of something meaningful being done with that character is really, really small.

    So take the childlike joy,and fantasy out of comics,have only the alpha family characters survive and wipe out the rest,and screw the ppl who actually keep comics alive,just because they have over the years grown attached to certain characters,okay sure

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Poison Ivy is a better Circe than Circe.

    Babs as Oracle is DC's collective bad conscience made, well not flesh and bone, but at least a visible representation.

    Superhero tales need a moral dimension at some interval, otherwise they devolve into edgelord power fantasies or unthinking conservatism.
    Can you explain what the last 2 paragraphs mean?

  9. #69
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    Young Justice season 3 and the Reign of the Supermen next year will both have SB in them, but both will only show you HALF of who he really is. Only together will he be whole.

  10. #70
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Poison Ivy is a better Circe than Circe.

    Babs as Oracle is DC's collective bad conscience made, well not flesh and bone, but at least a visible representation.

    Superhero tales need a moral dimension at some interval, otherwise they devolve into edgelord power fantasies or unthinking conservatism.
    Sometimes they're unthinking conservative edgelord power fantasies with a moral dimension. Cape comics do a lot of weird stuff.

  11. #71
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Anti-Geek View Post
    But compared to Gotham and Metropolis. Those other cities are generic. There are so many places you can name in Gotham and Metropolis. Star City and Fawcett are just kinda there.

    That's actually the strength of using fake cities.

    1) You don't have people looking over your shoulder pointing out mistakes in geography. People who can regonize where the subways are and what should be in the background...

    Being generic means you can do whatever you want with them. They can have a subway, they can have an elevated train, You need a university, go for it. They can a sports team if you need it, regardless of what happens in the real world. You want metropolis to get infected by Brainiac and become super sci-fi, no problem... You want an earthquake to ruin Gotham... that just happened. It's the kind of thing you just can't get away with Chicago or Atlanta... and any dose of 'realism' isn't worth the headaches and limitations that real cities give.

    Marvel's been doing it for so long they've become a punchline. There are 700 heroes JUST in New York... but nowhere else, because that's the city they wanted to write.

    The best thing that citiies like Fawcett and Star City has... it's it's own heroes. Batman isn't in Star City, Green Arrow isn't in Gotham... There isn't that annoying debate of why didn't Batman get Everyone elses help to stop Joker.... because they're all in tehir own cities scattered around.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    That's actually the strength of using fake cities.

    1) You don't have people looking over your shoulder pointing out mistakes in geography. People who can regonize where the subways are and what should be in the background...

    Being generic means you can do whatever you want with them. They can have a subway, they can have an elevated train, You need a university, go for it. They can a sports team if you need it, regardless of what happens in the real world. You want metropolis to get infected by Brainiac and become super sci-fi, no problem... You want an earthquake to ruin Gotham... that just happened. It's the kind of thing you just can't get away with Chicago or Atlanta... and any dose of 'realism' isn't worth the headaches and limitations that real cities give.

    Marvel's been doing it for so long they've become a punchline. There are 700 heroes JUST in New York... but nowhere else, because that's the city they wanted to write.

    The best thing that citiies like Fawcett and Star City has... it's it's own heroes. Batman isn't in Star City, Green Arrow isn't in Gotham... There isn't that annoying debate of why didn't Batman get Everyone elses help to stop Joker.... because they're all in tehir own cities scattered around.
    Cities are a big place. Not everyone will always be able to unite for a single threat because they'd also likely be caught up in their own stuff even if they live in the same place. Also, the X-Men and West Coast Avengers aren't in New York. And the issues with geography still apply to fake cities as well like where they're located.

  13. #73
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Cities are a big place. Not everyone will always be able to unite for a single threat because they'd also likely be caught up in their own stuff even if they live in the same place. Also, the X-Men and West Coast Avengers aren't in New York. And the issues with geography still apply to fake cities as well like where they're located.
    Cities are big places, but not that big. They still sometimes have to go out of their way to justify why the Avengers and the Fantastic Four can't respond and why Spider-Man is the ONLY hero around to stop Dr. Octopus or whatever. it can be a bit difficult to believe that they are always busy at around the same time another hero has a crisis that requires a solo adventure, but fans just roll with it.

    Marvel's New York is full of so much fictional stuff and events now that it might as well be a fictional city. Again, what difference does it make? There are issues with geography, but I don't think many of DC's fans care about where these fictional cities are located. It's changed so much over the years it doesn't even matter.

  14. #74
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    It's kind of obvious, but the reason DC and Marvel based their cities on New York was because that's where the publishers were located. And it happened that a lot of writers, artists and editors were from that area, in the period from about 1935 - 1965. While others that came to work for the companies--and most had to live in the area for employment--fell in love with New York and wanted to use it as a backdrop for their stories.

    Even if versions of the citiy were later given fictitious names, the model was New York--for most comics in the 1940s. Gotham City started out as Manhattan in DETECTIVE COMICS. The Spirit was originally located in New York and New Jersey, but later that was changed to Central City. Captain Marvel surely is in New York City--not the much later invention of Fawcett City.

    I personally liked how the DC writers and artists used New York but then put it through a blender and came out with these oddball versions of New York landmarks. Even in the 1960s, more fictitious versions of New York were being created. I recall that Ralph and Sue Dibny visited Empire City twice and this was clearly yet another fictional New York.

    It did bother me, however, in the 1970s when New York itself featured more and more in the comics. Diana Prince lived in New York. Superman--in the Sand Superman Saga--has his final confrontation with the creature in Manhattan rather than in Metropolis. The Teen Titans moving to New York had me spitting teeth. With all the New York facsimiles, why was it necessary? The pretend versions gave the writers much more freedom. Were we really supposed to believe Titans Tower was in the East River where any New Yorker would see it?

    I do think that fans care about the cities. It was a fascination of mine as a little kid--when I believed Gotham City and Metropolis really did exist, as after all the concept of the United States of America was rather mythological to this Canadian boy. But even when fans grow up they invest a lot of time on theories about the cities and where they are located. Bob Rozakis based his stories about the Calculator in DETECTIVE COMICS on a fan-made map of the DC cities--so the crime spree was supposed to travel across America from city to city (it turned out that there was an error in this map).

    As for available real estate--I remember there was a map of the U.S. in one of the DC events (maybe it was Our Worlds At War) that made the States look much bigger and Canada much smaller--so that the 49th parallel was perhaps the 53rd parallel. Since Canada is hardly ever featured in the DC stories (even though the super-heroes must fly over it all the time), I theorized that the U.S. took over a lot of Canadian land in the DC history, giving room for all those extra cities. While Canadian cities that do show up in the DCU (only Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal and Calgary with any frequency) are actually north of where they appear in reality, which accounts for why they're nothing like the real cities and why it's so cold and snowy most of the time in the DCU's version of Canada.
    Last edited by Jim Kelly; 08-11-2018 at 09:27 AM.
    celebrating 50 years of 4 beatles crossing a zebra

  15. #75

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    I cannot STAND Harley Quinn.

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