Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[Tzigone]

Terry was always problematic from the fact that he was Donna’s college professor when they started dating to him hitting on Kory right in front of Donna. I don’t think he was character assassinated so much as DC just realized all the issues with him.

He was not Donna's history professor. Donna was not a college student at all (at least not during that era), but was already a professional photographer. She said he didn't know how old she was at first. This is not the first time I've seen the idea he was her teacher, and I'd like to know where the idea comes from - was it retconned in later? I'd really like a source on it. Or to find out if it's fanon like Stephanie-Brown-raised-in-poverty-in-Crime-Alley when she really had a house in suburbs.
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And he made a comment about Kory's looks at one time and kissed her hand another, but did not actually hit on her (I found those comments somewhere from cheesy-to-skeevy, but everyone else seemed to find them charming) that I recall - he was not trying to get anywhere with her. Now, Roy hit on Kory, even though he knew she was dating Dick. I found that distateful, too, but that's just the way it went. Same with sexual harassment from Gar and Kory (towards Dick early on when he said he wasn't interested). There was a 10 year age gap, but there was 8 years between Vic and Sarah Charles, and they are adults. Not my preferred age gap on fictional couples, but hardly earth-shattering. Maybe less than Bruce and Talia.

I don’t think you need to have them both be adults to see the difference between how they treat Kon. One genuinely cares for him the other was trying to make him a villain.

Doesn't work for me. It was a significant plot point that Superboy thought Tana treated him like a kid - he even talked about her calling him "Kid." That entire dynamic falls flat to me if Tana is a teenager - he cannot reasonably perceive her to be treating him like a child if she is his peer. I get that it doesn't matter to you, but that's a really, really important part for me. As I said, it's the most interesting part of Tana's storyline for me. Elsewise, she's just a generic reporter - nothing wrong with her, but nothing stand out, either.
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That's the biggie to me - not that Tana is good and Knockout evil. But how he perceived the treatment from each of them in terms of how they treated him. One who told him to study and one who told him to have fun. One for whom sex was very much on the table (only convenient interruptions stopped it from going that far) and one for whom it was not. Not that it was all about getting laid for Kon - I mean, he could have found someone to sleep with him easily enough. But that he perceived Knockout as treating him as an equal and "adult" and respecting him instead of talking down to him. And of course that was completely wrong. He read into her what he wanted to see - she didn't even pretend to be good. But the thing is for me, when he's on that edge and choosing between them (ultimately choosing Knockout), they need to both be adults for that storyline to play out like it did. And I liked how it played out a lot. My fix for a reboot might actually be less romantic involvement from Tana. Maybe a kiss when he was going to die, then a withdrawal from him after he got better. Seeing him with another grown woman when Knockout pursues might really drive home to Tana that despite any attraction, this is not something to be pursued. And then that would further exaggerate him thinking Tana perceives him as a kid (which she would and should, though she still respects him, actually).

But if you want them more involved, his post-stopped-aging insecurities also work a bit better with Tana as adult, too.

[TheCape]

Terry was always problematic from the fact that he was Donna’s college professor when they started dating to him hitting on Kory right in front of Donna. I don’t think he was character assassinated so much as DC just realized all the issues with him.

Honestly, i wonder why people keep making this assumption, Terry wasn't Donna's teacher, she wasn't even in college during NTT, she had a job, in fact i'm almost sure that one of his actual students did hit on him and he felt uncomfortable. As for Starfire, i remember him comenting in her beauty (wich every male in that series did at some point or another) but not actual flirting. I'm not a fan of Terry, but some people make him look worse than he actually was, i like Gar and Roy far more than him and i think that their attitude toward women in that run was way more problematic than anything than Terry did, for that matter Raven actions were more problematic that anything that Terry did.

[Jackalope89]

My problem with Terry is that he was a self-insert. Never been a fan of those in any sort of media, particularly when they are put in to be a love interest.

[Tzigone]

Honestly, i wonder why people keep making this assumption, Terry wasn't Donna's teacher, she wasn't even in college during NTT, she had a job, in fact i'm almost sure that one of his actual students did hit on him and he felt uncomfortable. As for Starfire, i remember him comenting in her beauty (wich every male in that series did at some point or another) but not actual flirting. I'm not a fan of Terry, but some people make him look worse than he actually was, i like Gar and Roy far more than him and i think that their attitude toward women in that run was way more problematic than anything than Terry did, for that matter Raven actions were more problematic that anything that Terry did.

I absolutely agree, on all accounts. Roy was especially problematic - I mean, at least Gar had the excuse of being a kid (similar issue on Kon in the 1990s) and seemed to grow up along the way (for a while, anyway). It's not that that makes it acceptable, in any sense, it's just that I, as a reader, have more of a vibe of it being treated as a bad trait, and of it being temporary. I binge-read these in back issues, and likely would have found it far more irritating, real-time. Gar, also, unlike Kon, was sort of intentionally obnoxious as cover for insecurities - whether that's better or worse, I'm not sure. I not sure that element of his "humor," self-aggrandizement , etc. is hit on much in more recent years - that it wasn't "the real him" but an affectation. As I said, too, he'll seem to improve for a while, then switch back. Or at least he did in a certain era; not so much sure these days.

Like I said, I don't especially like Terry. I just think he gets vilified for things he didn't actually do (dating a student, hitting on other women). And that him going all restraining-order was completely contradictory to his attitude regarding Donna's superheroness in the '80s (where he played supportive boyfriend/husband). But like I said, I haven't read most of his '90s stuff, so maybe there was some build-up there.

[Jim Kelly]

When you don't like a fictional character it's fun to indulge in hyperbole and give him the worst attributes possible. It's not serious and it's not like Terry is a vulnerable character that needs to be defended. His perm can take the abuse.

[Anthony Shaw]

Speaking of...

My controversial opinion:

Bruce and Talia was more interesting than Bruce and Selina, and I would have loved to see them end up together...That is before she became a psycho date rapist who put a hit out on her own child (over a lost custody battle) and then gets upset when he dies. Man...Talia has been...not very great in recent years.

I totally agree with this.

[TheCape]

I absolutely agree, on all accounts. Roy was especially problematic - I mean, at least Gar had the excuse of being a kid (similar issue on Kon in the 1990s) and seemed to grow up along the way (for a while, anyway). It's not that that makes it acceptable, in any sense, it's just that I, as a reader, have more of a vibe of it being treated as a bad trait, and of it being temporary. I binge-read these in back issues, and likely would have found it far more irritating, real-time. Gar, also, unlike Kon, was sort of intentionally obnoxious as cover for insecurities - whether that's better or worse, I'm not sure. I not sure that element of his "humor," self-aggrandizement , etc. is hit on much in more recent years - that it wasn't "the real him" but an affectation. As I said, too, he'll seem to improve for a while, then switch back. Or at least he did in a certain era; not so much sure these days.

Like I said, I don't especially like Terry. I just think he gets vilified for things he didn't actually do (dating a student, hitting on other women). And that him going all restraining-order was completely contradictory to his attitude regarding Donna's superheroness in the '80s (where he played supportive boyfriend/husband). But like I said, I haven't read most of his '90s stuff, so maybe there was some build-up there.

More or less i agreed about Gar and his antics being a cover up for his insecurities are still part of him, but how well executed is variable. Roy was being the typical ladies man/womanizer of the 80s, wich more often that not had some...questionable attitudes, although in this case i think that he was used more to show that Kory was serious about her and Dick, she even throw it across the room when tried to kiss him, not really a fan of the whole thing, but i let it go a long time ago.

As for Terry and Donna divorce, the NTT book never really covered it, by the time that Donna came back to the book they were already divorced and he seemed really bitter (mostly because he though that she was putting their son at risk), but i don't know if that was actually build up in another book (i didn't read WW or Team Titans around that time, so maybe it happened there?). But as i said in my previous comment, i agreed with you, the worst thing about Terry was that he was just kind of boring, i don't think that Donna fans wanted someone like that to be his long term love interest. Kind of reminds me to Wes Westin from Spider-Girl, but without the age-gap.

[nhienphan2808]

I never liked the concept of biological and also naturally loved and badass child Helena Wayne and that Earth 2 Batman retired - not the retirement itself, but the fact that they still said Batman is still needed and his kids still have to fight as heroes but he retired. What even is the point. If that was a real life situation I would say the reason he was killed was because he retired to soon.

Golden Age Catwoman is better than any other version of her, tho. Really Bruces soulmate.

I would have liked Golden Age Aquaman to stay. He’s also the most interesting version of Aquaman.

Oracle being Babs’ evil enemy is a GREAT idea for the character, her most fitting rogue yet, and one of the only things that can make her more interesting than a knock-off yet more arrogant and less likeable old school Batman. Pity it will go nowhere as the universe is right now.

[jsafanforever]

1. Hawkman/Hawkgirl should be removed from DC continuity at the next available reboot and never revisited. The history of the characters is so muddled and any attempts to provide a linear theory has proved fruitless. Better to let them go.

2. Cyborg should never have been a member of the Justice League. He's a Titan, always was and always will be.

[DrNewGod]

1. Hawkman/Hawkgirl should be removed from DC continuity at the next available reboot and never revisited. The history of the characters is so muddled and any attempts to provide a linear theory has proved fruitless. Better to let them go...

It makes me sad to agree with you. The only way that I could see salvaging them at this point is a Hal v. Alan GL-scale revisoning.

[WillieMorgan]

Doesn't the current Hawkman run go a long way towards reconciling at least some of these long-standing irregularities?

I bought it on trade recently but haven't gotten round to reading it yet.

[superduperman]

I don't think Superman should have a kid. He's an alien. Lois is human. There is absolutely no way it would work and he's a distraction. The fact that Bendis aged him up and they're shipping him off to the Legion kind of suggests DC doesn't know what to do with him either.

[Jim Kelly]

So would you have Superman and Supergirl mate to continue the Kryptonian line?

[Jackalope89]

I don't think Superman should have a kid. He's an alien. Lois is human. There is absolutely no way it would work and he's a distraction. The fact that Bendis aged him up and they're shipping him off to the Legion kind of suggests DC doesn't know what to do with him either.

That's actually on Bendis. Whereas Tomasi actually had quite a few plans for the Super family going forward. Without aging up Jon.

[Fromper]

The idea of Superman having a kid with Lois Lane has been around in the comics for decades. There were imaginary future stories from the 1950s showing Mr. and Mrs. Superman with their Superbaby.

I'm not surprised some writer finally made it a reality. I'm also not surprised that the writers and editors had no clue what to do with the baby after he arrived. There's a reason superheroes never actually have kids while they're still actively starring in their own series. How do you handle the kids in stories?