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  1. #91
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Green Lantern creating complex machine constructs is dumb.

    Making shapes of light is fine, even (for example) projecting the image of a locomotive works. You can grasp the idea of his will to punch something manifesting as a heavy, speeding train in his imagination, and imposing such a form on the projected force.

    On the other hand, creating an mini-gun to shoot construct-bullets, complete with recoil and belt-fed ammo takes it too far. The concentration required to envision such a complex image would be a lot more than just a good old punch would take.

    I know artists like getting nuts with a ideas, and DC probably hopes to sell a passel of ring-construct toys, but it's bad for the concept and story.

    Yep.

    I remember either in one of the game stats or one of the books it was stated that GL's could only create things that they could truly picture and understand. Hal Jordan was a pilot and mechanic... it's feasible he COULD make a jet because he knew them inside and out. However that was the reason that most of the time they stuck with hammers and boxing gloves and anvils and 'simple' constructs. You just couldn't imagine and visualize every moving piece of a complex thing like that.

    It's also the complaint I had about both emerald twilight with Hal wearing 14 rings... and Kyle in general. More rings requires more concentration and splitting his willpower and would have made Hal WEAKER not stronger. And Kyle's fancy manga constructs have half of their concentration just on what it looks like when a giant green fist would have been stronger and more efficient.

  2. #92
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    In the early days of Green Lantern ('60s and '70s, I mean), there were all kinds of things that you could do with a green ring--shrink, grow, turn invisible, travel to alternate universes, go incredibly fast, create duplicates. It seemed to me it was in the ring and less in the person using the ring. Will power and no fear were just the primary requirements for the Corps--but it was possible for anyone to use the ring. It's like tellng your modern smart phone to do something for you--once you give the instruction, it does all the work.

    I guess these difficulties with the modern rings were created to put a limit on Green Lanterns, other than yellow.

    Visually, you want to give the artists something to do. Granted there doesn't have to be all that detail in the ring constructs; however, it's a visual medium and the artist needs to impress the reader with his craft.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    --but it was possible for anyone to use the ring.
    There were stories of individuals trying to use the ring and it didn't work. There was even a story that someone took the ring and Jordan operated it when it was on someone elses finger. The major thing it could do that seems to not be seen now, and was inherited from the golden age GL was to go through walls.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    There were stories of individuals trying to use the ring and it didn't work. There was even a story that someone took the ring and Jordan operated it when it was on someone elses finger. The major thing it could do that seems to not be seen now, and was inherited from the golden age GL was to go through walls.
    It's fair to say the comics back then weren't consistent. I remember that the ring had its own consciousness, so it could probably decide who should use it and who shouldn't. But then the ring also had its own world inside it (I could be wrong on that, but that's my memory). Thomas Kalmaku could use the ring and he wasn't vetted by the Guardians. One of the first GREEN LANTERN comics I ever got--issue 27--had GL's ring act on Hal's subconscious desires to give Horace Tolliver great power, with which Tolliver was able to acquire wealth and lord it over others. Fun times.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    It's fair to say the comics back then weren't consistent. I remember that the ring had its own consciousness, so it could probably decide who should use it and who shouldn't. But then the ring also had its own world inside it (I could be wrong on that, but that's my memory). Thomas Kalmaku could use the ring and he wasn't vetted by the Guardians. One of the first GREEN LANTERN comics I ever got--issue 27--had GL's ring act on Hal's subconscious desires to give Horace Tolliver great power, with which Tolliver was able to acquire wealth and lord it over others. Fun times.
    If you think about it, there is no reason the ring would not have an artificial intelligence.

  6. #96
    Incredible Member SilverWarriorWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I'd rather keep the fictional cities and get rid of the real cities. What use is New York when you got Gotham and Metropolis? Why Seattle when there's Star City? I'll take Fawcett City over Philadelphia.
    I’d see Fawcett as being more like St. Lewis. It still qualifies as a city, and has a flavor of its own (In this case, being a somewhat optimistic if retro sort of place), but is massively dwarfed by other cities, especially Gotham and Metropolis.

    As for something unpopular, well...I tried to read We Are Robin, but I couldn’t get engaged. It didn’t feel like it was set in Gotham to me.

  7. #97
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    I gave Philadelphia for Fawcett in my example only because, in trailer reactions I saw, people said that SHAZAM! is set in Philadelphia. Which was news to me because I thought the movie was made in Toronto. It's funny comparing trailer reactions from people in Philadelphia vs peope in Toronto--they both seem to recognize the city as their city. No word yet what people in Fawcett City think.

  8. #98
    Incredible Member SilverWarriorWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I gave Philadelphia for Fawcett in my example only because, in trailer reactions I saw, people said that SHAZAM! is set in Philadelphia. Which was news to me because I thought the movie was made in Toronto. It's funny comparing trailer reactions from people in Philadelphia vs peope in Toronto--they both seem to recognize the city as their city. No word yet what people in Fawcett City think.
    New 52 set Shazam’s story in real world Philadelphia, not Fawcett City, so I’m not sure if the comparison stands.

    Personally, I don’t see them as matching, but this is an area where we can agree to disagree. That said, I agreee I prefer Fawcett City as the choice, if only to reference the original company.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverWarriorWolf View Post
    I’d see Fawcett as being more like St. Lewis. It still qualifies as a city, and has a flavor of its own (In this case, being a somewhat optimistic if retro sort of place)...
    Dude. If by "St. Lewis", you're referring to St. Louis, you got an interesting definition of "optimistic."

  10. #100
    DARKSEID LAUGHS... Crazy Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    DC doesn't do if enough with their mystic and magic based teams.
    DC's magic characters work best when they're being written by someone who actually knows theology (ex. John Ostrander) or the occult (ex. Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Rachel Pollack, J.M Dematteis). Otherwise they're too powerful and that means they get jobbed out or conveniently written out of the story so it doesn't end in five panels. I couldn't get into Shadowpact because it just felt like every other team superhero book out there but with magic characters in it which was a shame and kind of a waste. In fact, I think a good chunk of the magic DC characters worked better in Vertigo where they could explore themes like that. John Constantine never recovered from being put back in the DCU. It's said seeing him he's so watered down and bland.


    Hal Jordan would work better as an anti-hero with his traits. In the older comics there was this tendency to have him act in questionable ways and the writers would rarely acknowledge it.

    Guy Gardner's current origin is terrible. And now he's bland and nonthreatening too. Him being a Red Lantern was good for him because as a Green Lantern he'd done it all. His story was over.

    If the DC wants to have a multiverse they should try taking advantage of it. I mean why have the Wildstorm charaters be also rans on Earth-Prime when they could be their own imprint again on their own Earth?

    Kon-El was a great character till he was retconned by Geoff Johns. He was never the same after that. It just sucked the life out of his character.

    Grant Morrison did his best work when he wasn't writing superheroes. Maybe the upcoming GL book will prove me wrong but I felt he said all he needed to say with All-Star Superman.

  11. #101
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    Hal Jordan would work better as an anti-hero with his traits.<<

    What is the oldest GL story you read?

  12. #102
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    I used to trouble myself thinking about what people like Alan Grant actually believed. Did they believe the supernatural was real? Were they trying to create something that they truly believed? Or were they just pretending and playing with the rules of a made-up mythology? Since I couldn't swallow any of this stuff, it bothered me if they were trying to convert me to some way-out faith. For some reason any stories that adapt the ideas of H.P. Lovecraft (comic book counterparts of Cthulhu) would set off my BS detector.

  13. #103
    Incredible Member SilverWarriorWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Dude. If by "St. Lewis", you're referring to St. Louis, you got an interesting definition of "optimistic."
    I chose St. Lewis for its size (not even on the top 50 in the US). I’d find Philadelphia to be to big to match Fawcett.

    The optimism part is uniquely Fawcett City, even more so than Metropolis.
    Last edited by SilverWarriorWolf; 08-18-2018 at 08:23 PM.

  14. #104
    Incredible Member docmidnite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Yep.

    I remember either in one of the game stats or one of the books it was stated that GL's could only create things that they could truly picture and understand. Hal Jordan was a pilot and mechanic... it's feasible he COULD make a jet because he knew them inside and out. However that was the reason that most of the time they stuck with hammers and boxing gloves and anvils and 'simple' constructs. You just couldn't imagine and visualize every moving piece of a complex thing like that.

    It's also the complaint I had about both emerald twilight with Hal wearing 14 rings... and Kyle in general. More rings requires more concentration and splitting his willpower and would have made Hal WEAKER not stronger. And Kyle's fancy manga constructs have half of their concentration just on what it looks like when a giant green fist would have been stronger and more efficient.
    I agree with most of this. Hal never had the willpower to use 14 rings. Only 2 at most.

    127-1.jpg

    As far as needing to "know" how to make a construct, well the ring's A.I. is programmed with all of the Guardians' knowledge of the known universe. So all a GL has to be able to do is think of something quickly that's in the ring's database and have the willpower to "will" it into being during a fight/battle.

    My personal beef has always been with the whole "imagination thing". Especially since it's impossible to be imagining/thinking up things in your mind while also keeping your mind/focus and anticipation on every movement your opponent's making at the exact same time.

    That's why it requires years of repetitive fight and combat training to be an expert fighter, soldier or cop. So all of the techniques you practice becomes as close to reflex action as possible so you can focus on your opponent or situation.

    It's also why quick, simple, effective constructs made way more sense to me. Why waste precious seconds accessing the ring's database on bazookas during a fight/battle (giving your opponent any small opportunity to strike) when you can just simply point and shoot?

    Also, I already read comics partly for the artwork. I read Batman to see how entertaining Bats and his world is drawn and written, not to see how pretty his weapons are drawn.
    Last edited by docmidnite; 08-18-2018 at 09:37 PM.

  15. #105
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    What the hell is will power anyway? Ever since I heard this as a little kid, I've always been frustrated by the idea that you will stuff to happen. No you don't. I already knew that as a little kid. You make a decision in your brain to do something and you send that instruction to the muscles in your body and they are either strong and practiced enough to do it or not. It's not some fuzzy concept called will. That's just pure balogna. It seemed like something adults tell kids just to belittle them, so they think there's someting lacking in theirselves on a spiritual level and that's why they can't do something. No. If you want to do something, you find a way to get it done. Will is a useless term.

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