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  1. #1066
    Spectacular Member Dark-Jacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I agree we haven't really left the dark age. Where I disagree is that the 90s started it for DC. Most of what you said was either undone immediately as part of a story or mitigated by what came after.

    Bad things happening in a story is not a lack of optimism.
    I don't think either it started with the 90's nor that nothing good came from the 90's (I started reading comics in 1990 and a loved a good lot of these stories.) I should have been more specific. To me new52 and rebirth are failure so far as to get out of the dark age of comics.

    That's funny because I feel more depressed than entertained reading most of DC comics products. I'd be curious to get your sense of optimism.

  2. #1067
    Boisterously Confused
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    Unlike Bucky Barnes, both Barry Allen and Jason Todd had much more utility as revered corpses than as current characters.

  3. #1068
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    The only characters that have more utility as revered corpses are those specifically created to die (The Waynes, the Uncle Bens, etc.)
    Last edited by Arsenal; 09-02-2019 at 04:14 PM.

  4. #1069
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    The only characters that have more utility as revered corpses are those specifically created to die (The Waynes, the Uncle Bens, etc.)
    There is a reasonable argument that Barry being dead led to more and better narrative creation than his revival. A pretty strong one, actually.

  5. #1070
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Unlike Bucky Barnes, both Barry Allen and Jason Todd had much more utility as revered corpses than as current characters.
    Hard agree tbh
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  6. #1071
    Boisterously Confused
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    Giffen's Justice League was great for about 6 issues, and then turned horrible.

  7. #1072
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    The only characters that have more utility as revered corpses are those specifically created to die (The Waynes, the Uncle Bens, etc.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    There is a reasonable argument that Barry being dead led to more and better narrative creation than his revival. A pretty strong one, actually.
    And Batman having so vivid a failure gave him an impetus beyond his parents murder.

  8. #1073
    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
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    DC should retcon Jason so he never died and just grew up to be Red Hood naturally. Or at least do a mainstream alternate take where that happens.
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  9. #1074
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    DC should retcon Jason so he never died and just grew up to be Red Hood naturally. Or at least do a mainstream alternate take where that happens.
    Why would he take up the name Red Hood then?
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  10. #1075
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    DC should retcon Jason so he never died and just grew up to be Red Hood naturally. Or at least do a mainstream alternate take where that happens.
    How would he become Red Hood naturally?

    Jason's death is an important moment in the DCU and defines Jason's worldview about killing criminals.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  11. #1076
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Why would he take up the name Red Hood then?
    For the same reason Grayson became Nightwing? Independence.

  12. #1077
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    For the same reason Grayson became Nightwing? Independence.
    No. Specifically the name Red Hood. Taking a name after the Joker without that twisted personal connection would be like naming yourself after Ted Bundy or Hitler.

    But also that's some Nightwing-lite dilution there IMO
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  13. #1078
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    For the same reason Grayson became Nightwing? Independence.
    Jason didn't become Red Hood out of a need of independence like Dick. He did it out of ideological differences in crime fighting.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  14. #1079
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    And Batman having so vivid a failure gave him an impetus beyond his parents murder.
    Yeah, Bruce failed that day. For somebody like him, that’ something that would stay with him until the day he died regardless of Jason remaining dead or not afterwards. So what purpose does Jason remaining dead actually contribute? It’s not like he was held in high regard after he died.

  15. #1080
    Mighty Member Kaijudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Unlike Bucky Barnes, both Barry Allen and Jason Todd had much more utility as revered corpses than as current characters.
    Not DC I know, but add Jean Grey to that list.

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