Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[Robanker]

I really wish DC would just come clean about how they treat Wonder Woman because Im honestly confused on what their intentions are with the character. I understand if they had stories like Azzarello that appeal to a different demographic and bought traffic but they seem to get writers that write stories for nobody.

To be honest, they seem so focused on trying to give her a "Dark Knight Returns" watershed moment that they treat Diana's entire universe as expendable for the next run. A new reader would be forgiven for thinking she's basically spun out of Justice League with how little DC seems to care about her and her supporting cast/sidekicks. She needs her own editor who can veto what goes on in other books, or at least really fight for Diana's stakes in narratives. Honestly? Break up the Justice League editorial department and give that to the Wonder Woman editor. I'd be curious to see what the Justice League would look like when Batman or Superman don't defacto need to be the top dogs with Diana getting lip service from DC because she sells a lot of merch for them. I would adore a run of Justice League that featured the big seven and Diana at the helm. Not third wheeling the Batman and/or Superman show, not Dinah's in-name-only time at bat, genuinely leading.

Superman's been mismanaged for years, but it seems like there's just enough people under the decision makers that keep him from completely floundering. With Diana, I don't honestly know anymore. It really does feel like in every discussion, DC finds a way to be the one entity in the room who loves Diana the least.

"She's a badass warrior!"

Eat me. She's a lot more than Red Sonja with more covered up.

[Lex Luthor]

To be honest, they seem so focused on trying to give her a "Dark Knight Returns" watershed moment that they treat Diana's entire universe as expendable for the next run. A new reader would be forgiven for thinking she's basically spun out of Justice League with how little DC seems to care about her and her supporting cast/sidekicks. She needs her own editor who can veto what goes on in other books, or at least really fight for Diana's stakes in narratives. Honestly? Break up the Justice League editorial department and give that to the Wonder Woman editor. I'd be curious to see what the Justice League would look like when Batman or Superman don't defacto need to be the top dogs with Diana getting lip service from DC because she sells a lot of merch for them. I would adore a run of Justice League that featured the big seven and Diana at the helm. Not third wheeling the Batman and/or Superman show, not Dinah's in-name-only time at bat, genuinely leading.

Superman's been mismanaged for years, but it seems like there's just enough people under the decision makers that keep him from completely floundering. With Diana, I don't honestly know anymore. It really does feel like in every discussion, DC finds a way to be the one entity in the room who loves Diana the least.

"She's a badass warrior!"

Eat me. She's a lot more than Red Sonja with more covered up.

It does seem like they are constantly going from "trying way too hard" to not trying at all with her. I can at least think of one Superman title that I've completely enjoyed in the past few years but with Wonder Woman its like pulling teeth.

I don't know much about the people that work at DC but none of the people I know of would be a good fit for editor because I don't think they know enough about her to come up with what's best for her. I feel like they need someone that won't care about all the unnecessary pressure to make her "perfect" but who also has a penchant for Diana's type of storytelling and worldbuilding. Then we could probably see something happen but until then it will likely be all the same issues.

[Ascended]

I'm not sure if Diana's problems are because DC doesn't care, or just because they don't get her. I lean towards thinking they just don't get her. Even if the people in charge don't care for Di personally, she's obviously a big damn deal and a IP the company wants/needs to use, push, and invest in. But when they don't understand her appeal (and they don't seem to understand anyone's appeal except Batman's) they're always going to come up short, because Diana isn't Bruce.

And, to a point, I can't blame DC for not getting Diana either. She's probably the most complex character in DC, if not all of comics, with tons of contradictions and contrasts in her character. What she used to be and what she's become are very different things, and her setting and cast have been under a constant shift since Marston left!

I feel like DC just needs to pay Patty Jenkins to write a Wonder Bible, and then make that mandatory reading for every creative team. That combined with an edict stopping people from dumping the work of previous writers could go a long way towards Diana getting her groove back.

[Agent Z]

I'm not sure if Diana's problems are because DC doesn't care, or just because they don't get her. I lean towards thinking they just don't get her. Even if the people in charge don't care for Di personally, she's obviously a big damn deal and a IP the company wants/needs to use, push, and invest in. But when they don't understand her appeal (and they don't seem to understand anyone's appeal except Batman's) they're always going to come up short, because Diana isn't Bruce.

And, to a point, I can't blame DC for not getting Diana either. She's probably the most complex character in DC, if not all of comics, with tons of contradictions and contrasts in her character. What she used to be and what she's become are very different things, and her setting and cast have been under a constant shift since Marston left!

I feel like DC just needs to pay Patty Jenkins to write a Wonder Bible, and then make that mandatory reading for every creative team. That combined with an edict stopping people from dumping the work of previous writers could go a long way towards Diana getting her groove back.

If these posts from a WW thread are to be believed, DC isn't interested in consistency for Diana.

Maggie's popping up, out of nowhere, serving a narrative purpose that would plausibly be Ettas - saying what Etta would plausibly say - makes one thing, very clear.

The editorial mandate, as explained by Gail Simone, Brian Azzarello and others, that writers world-build for WW stories, out of whole cloth (new characters, situations, etc) ensures that next to no continuity editing will be required. There's no editorial need to assess Etta's character development, from one story to the next, when assured that an Etta-substitute, installed by New Writer X, will be filling in, with no hostory to keep up with or fit into a fresh story.

Maggie, by editor's intention or happenstance, ensures there'll be no need for editors to check GWWs story for consistency, with Etta's development in the on-going narrative. No opportunity for us to take comfort in how Diana and her companions have grown together...how their relationships have evolved and deepened in meaning, over the course of time - that's a shame.

Diana's beach house , until recently, floating in a nondescript shoreline region of VA, ensures no editor will be required to check New Writer Xs story made no significant changes in an iconic city that new story will have to match or otherwise contend with...no continuity to edit.

Unfortunately, this cheats us fans of something most comic fans enjoy, ..and that is the presence of familiar characters and iconic locations to emtionally invest in ..and look forward to. Substituting Maggie for Etta and substuting Ocean City or Gateway for real-world Washington, DC, an unchanging, inconsequential locale, with no importance to any character, ..ascertains that readers will be deprived of emotional investments in favorite characters and favorite fictional cities. I don't think WW fans have had that, since the 70s...unfortunate.

So they went out of their way to make writters make more characters, just so the editors don't have to actualy do their job, if that's true, it's admirable how lazy they are, unfortunately, it's not the good kind of lazyness that is actualy interesting or good.

[mathew101281]

Vague or simple origin stories always work best for superheroes. No comic book hero has ever been made better by complicating their origin story.

[DrNewGod]

Vague or simple origin stories always work best for superheroes. No comic book hero has ever been made better by complicating their origin story.

Absolute truth!

[phantom1592]

Vague or simple origin stories always work best for superheroes. No comic book hero has ever been made better by complicating their origin story.

Agreed. Spider-man's Origin was what? 6-7 pages long? First appeared in Amazing Fantasy 15, but people tend to forget there were like 3 OTHER stories in that issue that he shared it with. Still considered one of the best origins ever.

[Ascended]

If these posts from a WW thread are to be believed, DC isn't interested in consistency for Diana.

Sadly I'd believe it.

[Agent Z]

A lot of Deathstroke fans are way too enarmored of the guy and clearly have a double standard when it comes to adaptations and stories that whitewash his sins as shown by their love for the CW version.

[lemonpeace]

the Vixen x John Stewart pairing is a far more egregious example of the matching set/"Like goes with Like" trope than Black Panther and Storm ever were.

[Vampire Savior]

I strongly dislike the Vixen x John Stewart pairing, but I think there might actually be some sort of interesting character development with John Stewart there, though it's never overtly stated or even played with, because it happened on a kid's show. I could certainly be reaching too far with this, but it wouldn't surprise me if McDuffie meant this intentionally, because he seems like someone who may have done this. John Stewart was lied to and betrayed by a white woman alien. He went outside his perceived "zone" and got burned bad. In a (failed) attempt to steady himself and move on, he turns to the thing that is like him-a human black woman. It's implied that this black woman plays a role in changing John Stewart's wardrobe, hairstyle, and facial hair. In a conversation with Batman in the cafeteria of the Watchtower, it's strongly suggested that John Stewart is not really happy doing this and would rather be with Hawkgirl. That's where the Vixen x GL ship falls completely apart. It's not...real. It's not really what the guy wants to be doing, but he's caught in a sticky situation; he's with another woman and doesn't want to be a complete cad.

It's actually sort of interesting, even if I think the ball was dropped several places, and even if I preferred it never happened in the first place.

I think this another reason why I don't like John Stewart on JLU. It seems to me the dude was caught in a situation he didn't REALLY want to be in, it completely dominated his arc, and I watched that for two or three seasons, or however long that was. It went on way too long, and that's just not how I would want to see the hero.

[iron chimp]

Swamp thing + abby arcane is just very weird

[Robanker]

It's implied that this black woman plays a role in changing John Stewart's wardrobe, hairstyle, and facial hair. In a conversation with Batman in the cafeteria of the Watchtower, it's strongly suggested that John Stewart is not really happy doing this and would rather be with Hawkgirl. That's where the Vixen x GL ship falls completely apart. It's not...real. It's not really what the guy wants to be doing, but he's caught in a sticky situation; he's with another woman and doesn't want to be a complete cad.

This, while painting John in a slightly worse light (as he's potentially leading Vixen on if she believes they're serious), it did feel very human. He rebounded. For what it's worth, I thought those two had solid chemistry (thanks in no small part to both actor's natural charisma) though nowhere near his and Hawkgirl's, but I do understand how that relationship looks very "stay in your lane" when juxtaposed with John/Hawkgirl.

While I prefer the Hawks flying together, in JL/U, Carter probably never should have showed up. Hro Talek was enough of a Hawkman pastiche and Carter basically just showed up to be a guy with no chance and make things, frankly, unnecessarily complicated. Then again, considering the other romantic pairing of the show was Bruce/Diana, I'll take just about anything else to avoid more WonderBat. That's just what Diana needs, to be bouncing between Clark and Bruce when they're single like some non-committal game of romantic pong for all eternity. Hard pass.

[Jim Kelly]

Swamp thing + abby arcane is just very weird

It's Alan Moore. The weirdness is the feature.

[iron chimp]

It's Alan Moore. The weirdness is the feature.

Its true. A unique vision told in the most articulate way but.... woman and plant... youve lost me a bit there alan.