Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2018

[Konja7]

If the two Robins thing goes through it's going to go a disaster. I peeked at the Tim and Damian threads and they're already angry over it.
Comics are a medium where fans can make a difference on the material. The reason they erased Steph from the universe in the first place was because they wanted Babs as Batgirl both Steph and Cass were a threat to that. Embracing Steph as Spoiler would be better for her in the long run because DC wouldn't consider her as (toxic) the way they do Steph as Batgirl.
If there's more Spoiler positivity people might use her more.

Stephanie with Spoiler as her only identity has probably dissapeared after New 52 reboot too, especially considering the destruction of Tim's story in New 52. It's more unlikely that she will return.

Te popularity that Stephanie gained as Batgirl caused that many fans claimed for Stephanie.


The fans are fighting about two Robins, but they may adapt at the end.

In fact, I would like Steph being Robin with more interactions with Batman. Of course, I mean an interaction as an ally, not too confrontational (her popularity doesn't allow her confront the most popular character of DC without suffering in the process).

I like her interactions with Batman in Smallville by Brian Q Miller (I know she's called Barbara, but her personality is Stephanie).

[SneakyLookingSort]

I've reached a point where I feel like if I see another Bat-symbol I'm going to throw up. I think in the long run it would be better for Steph, Tim and Cass to move away from the Batfamily to do their own thing somewhere else.

[Jackalope89]

I've reached a point where I feel like if I see another Bat-symbol I'm going to throw up. I think in the long run it would be better for Steph, Tim and Cass to move away from the Batfamily to do their own thing somewhere else.

Cass is headed to the Outsiders, Tim to Young Justice (but apparently as Robin, which is a big issue), and Cass off to Limbo Land.

[MajorHoy]

I enjoyed Steph as Batgirl, but that was when Barbara was still in a wheelchair and there wasn't any recovery on the horizon. Barbara was also older then in the pre-New52 days (though probably not quite as old when she was originally introduced back in 1967, when she was a college graduate (likely with a masters degree) working for the Gotham City Library and Dick hadn't even graduated from high school yet).
But they severely de-aged Barbara for the New52 and seemingly reduced the amount of time when she wasn't Batgirl. It would be much easier to just come up with a new identity for Steph (if people aren't happy with her Spoiler name) than it would be to drop Barbara as Batgirl (and all the $'s they make from marketing Barbara that way!) just so Steph can use the name again.
(And also, how many people who weren't around when Steph was Batgirl will buy into the change from Barbara as Batgirl?)
It's really pointless to expect DC to change that situation at present, and even if they did, how likely would they be to come up with a Steph-as-Batgirl series as enjoyable as the one we already had from 2009-2011?

[Konja7]

I enjoyed Steph as Batgirl, but that was when Barbara was still in a wheelchair and there wasn't any recovery on the horizon. Barbara was also older then in the pre-New52 days (though probably not quite as old when she was originally introduced back in 1967, when she was a college graduate (likely with a masters degree) working for the Gotham City Library and Dick hadn't even graduated from high school yet).
But they severely de-aged Barbara for the New52 and seemingly reduced the amount of time when she wasn't Batgirl. It would be much easier to just come up with a new identity for Steph (if people aren't happy with her Spoiler name) than it would be to drop Barbara as Batgirl (and all the $'s they make from marketing Barbara that way!) just so Steph can use the name again.
(And also, how many people who weren't around when Steph was Batgirl will buy into the change from Barbara as Batgirl?)
It's really pointless to expect DC to change that situation at present, and even if they did, how likely would they be to come up with a Steph-as-Batgirl series as enjoyable as the one we already had from 2009-2011?

That's fine. I don't think DC will take Batgirl away from Barbara either. Although two Batgirls is still a possibility.

Please, just stop the "Steph should be popular on her own". You should know it's pretty difficult the character can shine or get attention of writers without an identity connected with Batman (that's why you don't want Barbara change her secret identity).


PS: I would like Stephanie as Robin.

[MajorHoy]

PS: I would like Stephanie as Robin.

What I'd enjoy is a Stephanie Brown and Beryl Hutchinson team-up book, but I know that's unlikely.

[millernumber1]

What I'd enjoy is a Stephanie Brown and Beryl Hutchinson team-up book, but I know that's unlikely.

I have this issue on my wall at work! It is great! A classic one shot.

[millernumber1]

The problem is that Steph as Steph doesn't call the attention of writers or fans (even if Stephanie as Spoiler has an important arc, she will probably for forgotten pretty fast).

In change, it's more difficult than Stephanie as Batgirl is forgotten for writers and fans.

Your problem with "borrow" the mantle is curioud, when this is pretty common of the Batfamily. It seems it will be two Robins soon.

She's never forgotten by her core fanbase, but it's been incredibly difficult to grow that core fanbase, since we've had two massive die-offs of fandom - first when she literally died, and second when she was erased in the n52.

And as I've said literally dozens of times at this point, there have been two Batmen, multiple Robins (with time travel and the We Are Robin title) - I don't see why a League of Batgirls is such a horrible concept.

Steph as Spoiler fan works are hard to find, but it could help to actually make the demand for that known. Fan artists and writers are more likely to accept Steph as Spoiler requests than DC will be to make Steph Batgirl again if Spoiler were more popular it's more likely for her to come out of limbo than when Steph as Batgirl is popular, because that's a threat to the status quo.

When I see good Steph fanart on tumblr, I comment on it to try to encourage the artists to make more. And most of it is Batgirl. But every now and then there's an amazing Spoiler piece, like these:

http://sonialiao.tumblr.com/post/176...eup-of-posters

http://ibmiller.tumblr.com/post/1765...chi-ediriweera

http://ibmiller.tumblr.com/post/1745...tus10022169143

I should be honest that I was a little indifferent to Stephanie by Tynion in Detective Comics (I like her in Eternal). I don't hate her in this, but I feel worried about fans of her Batgirl run complained about her new role

Regarding supporting Steph as Steph/Spoiler. This can be for one of two reasons (or both reasons):

- People really like Steph as Spoiler, who seems to have been a relatively popular supporting character for Robin. So, they want to develop Spoiler in a more independent role.

- People don't want Stephanie interfere with Barbara as Batgirl. They can't even suggest that Barbara (a more popular character) can get a new identity, because she born being Batgirl, so she is the only one who "deserve" that identity. Although Cassandra also born for that identity, but she can't borrow that identity, because Barbara is the "original".

PS: I really like Barbara. She's a pretty interesting character.

I'd say you were in the majority of fans who were actually involved in discussions about Tec when it was going on.

I think it's a really accurate statement to say that going back to Spoiler after Robin and Batgirl is a demotion. I am really curious, if the "Steph should remain Spoiler" people are honest, would you say that Spoiler could ever really have a role equal to Steph as Batgirl? Because I don't think so.

You hit on a really solid point about Spoiler, as well, that I think most Steph fans aren't willing to admit: Steph was Tim's supporting character. Dixon was always interested in developing her, but she wasn't a solo, she wasn't the co-lead of Robin - she was a supporting character to a supporting character.

I will keep saying it: when I say I want Steph as Batgirl, I don't mean that I want to take Batgirl from Babs, or leave Cass out (or even Bette, I know Oberon's out there.) If we can have We Are Robin and Batman and Robin Eternal (yes, I know they're not all Robin in the same way, but I think it's a really viable concept).

Babs as Oracle in the Birds of Prey was one of the first characters in comics I loved. I don't want her to go away.

That's the problem Spoiler mantle isn't popular. It's pretty difficult that Spoiler will become more popular, since the mantle doesn't attract the attention of writers (who are interested on more popular characters or their own creations).

At the moment, there will be two Robins, it could be a third. Or two Batgirls.

Agreed. Batgirl was one of the first times when Steph really got widespread support outside of her core fanbase, and really grew the fanbase (as evidenced by the fact that there's so many who love her first as Batgirl).

If the two Robins thing goes through it's going to go a disaster. I peeked at the Tim and Damian threads and they're already angry over it.
Comics are a medium where fans can make a difference on the material. The reason they erased Steph from the universe in the first place was because they wanted Babs as Batgirl both Steph and Cass were a threat to that. Embracing Steph as Spoiler would be better for her in the long run because DC wouldn't consider her as (toxic) the way they do Steph as Batgirl.
If there's more Spoiler positivity people might use her more.

I strongly disagree that two Robins is going to be a disaster. But we won't know until it actually happens. The Robins (and the Batgirls, sadly) are often angry with each other. As I've already pointed out today.

I disagree that embracing Steph as Spoiler is better - because it got her written off for another year, at least.

And as I said, I've been trying to get Spoiler positivity - not just about her old stuff, but the new stuff, because we need that energy for DC to hear that we want more of her in all forms, but particularly in the form we are getting her, or they'll think, "Oh, no one cares." Dustin Nguyen says that there's a real perception that once they brought Steph back in Eternal, nobody talked about her to writers and artists anymore. We need to change that perception.

Stephanie with Spoiler as her only identity has probably dissapeared after New 52 reboot too, especially considering the destruction of Tim's story in New 52. It's more unlikely that she will return.

Te popularity that Stephanie gained as Batgirl caused that many fans claimed for Stephanie.

The fans are fighting about two Robins, but they may adapt at the end.

In fact, I would like Steph being Robin with more interactions with Batman. Of course, I mean an interaction as an ally, not too confrontational (her popularity doesn't allow her confront the most popular character of DC without suffering in the process).

I like her interactions with Batman in Smallville by Brian Q Miller (I know she's called Barbara, but her personality is Stephanie).

I think Steph will return, but I'd like it to be in under a year. But it's looking worse and worse.

I'm 100% on board with Steph being Robin. I was actually half-hoping she'd be a leader of the We Are Robin movement back before that title started - she was in the "pilot" for that series, Detective Comics: Endgame one-shot. (Now that one is almost certainly not canon anymore, since Lonnie/Anarky was a completely new character to Steph in Tec.)

I agree that "Babs" in Smallville Season 11 was totally Steph. I think BQM even admitted as much on tumblr, but sadly I didn't save that post, and he deleted his blog a few years ago.

I've reached a point where I feel like if I see another Bat-symbol I'm going to throw up. I think in the long run it would be better for Steph, Tim and Cass to move away from the Batfamily to do their own thing somewhere else.

Hmm. Why the aversion to Bats? Do you feel there's too many, or does it mean something bad to you?

I think it would be nice to have independent identities, but I'm not really set on that idea, and I like the sales that Batman brings.

Cass is headed to the Outsiders, Tim to Young Justice (but apparently as Robin, which is a big issue), and Cass off to Limbo Land.

Yup. I'm so tired of the story of Steph in Limbo. I've heard it before.

[millernumber1]

I enjoyed Steph as Batgirl, but that was when Barbara was still in a wheelchair and there wasn't any recovery on the horizon. Barbara was also older then in the pre-New52 days (though probably not quite as old when she was originally introduced back in 1967, when she was a college graduate (likely with a masters degree) working for the Gotham City Library and Dick hadn't even graduated from high school yet).
But they severely de-aged Barbara for the New52 and seemingly reduced the amount of time when she wasn't Batgirl. It would be much easier to just come up with a new identity for Steph (if people aren't happy with her Spoiler name) than it would be to drop Barbara as Batgirl (and all the $'s they make from marketing Barbara that way!) just so Steph can use the name again.
(And also, how many people who weren't around when Steph was Batgirl will buy into the change from Barbara as Batgirl?)
It's really pointless to expect DC to change that situation at present, and even if they did, how likely would they be to come up with a Steph-as-Batgirl series as enjoyable as the one we already had from 2009-2011?

As I've said over and over again: I don't want to take Batgirl away from Babs. I think League of Batgirls really could work. People don't get confused about Charlie's Angels being different characters, or the Ninja Turtles.

You have a solid point about whether they could get someone as good as BQM, and artists as solid as Garbett, Nguyen, and Perez. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't ask and hope for as good. It's not bad to want more quality, rather than mediocrity.

That's fine. I don't think DC will take Batgirl away from Barbara either. Although two Batgirls is still a possibility.

Please, just stop the "Steph should be popular on her own". You should know it's pretty difficult the character can shine or get attention of writers without an identity connected with Batman (that's why you don't want Barbara change her secret identity).

PS: I would like Stephanie as Robin.

All of this.

[Newnime]

I'm not saying being Batgirl again wouldn't be good for Steph, or that I don't like Steph as Batgirl, my preference for Spoiler is more a liking for the costume than any narrative thing I love all versions of Steph, but unless she gets more popular than Babs DC just won't give her Batgirl no matter how much Steph fans asks for it because it would upset the Babs fans who are bringing in more money. That's how comics work and Steph isn't going to get more popular unless there are more people are saying they love Steph as opposed to people saying Steph should be Batgirl.
Jason Todd got a huge fanbase because his small fanbase kept asking for a Jason Todd comic, despite the writers not liking him in post crisis. If fans ask for Steph, and keep asking for her even when she's there, in whatever costume they're willing to give her to us, maybe the same thing will happen to her.
I'm hoping that doomsday clock reinstates at least most of post crisis cannon and maybe then Stephs history as Batgirl will be restored, but even if that happens we still have to keep asking.

[Konja7]

I'm not saying being Batgirl again wouldn't be good for Steph, or that I don't like Steph as Batgirl, my preference for Spoiler is more a liking for the costume than any narrative thing I love all versions of Steph, but unless she gets more popular than Babs DC just won't give her Batgirl no matter how much Steph fans asks for it because it would upset the Babs fans who are bringing in more money. That's how comics work and Steph isn't going to get more popular unless there are more people are saying they love Steph as opposed to people saying Steph should be Batgirl.
Jason Todd got a huge fanbase because his small fanbase kept asking for a Jason Todd comic, despite the writers not liking him in post crisis. If fans ask for Steph, and keep asking for her even when she's there, in whatever costume they're willing to give her to us, maybe the same thing will happen to her.
I'm hoping that doomsday clock reinstates at least most of post crisis cannon and maybe then Stephs history as Batgirl will be restored, but even if that happens we still have to keep asking.

Jason was the Robin who died (actually, that isn't new, but it was on his time) and return "bad" that help him to develop a bigger fanbase. However, his time as Robin is still essential in his current popularity.

Even Steph, the fact that she was Robin (for a extremely short time) call more attention about the terrible of her death and the mistreated of DC. If her death happened with only the identity of Spoiler, she would probably be forgotten in a long list of women mistreated by comics.


I would like Robin for Stephanie, because that would call attention of writers and fans. Also, interactions with Batman in this role would help her.

As I said, it seems that two people will share the title, it could be a third.

[millernumber1]

I'm not saying being Batgirl again wouldn't be good for Steph, or that I don't like Steph as Batgirl, my preference for Spoiler is more a liking for the costume than any narrative thing I love all versions of Steph, but unless she gets more popular than Babs DC just won't give her Batgirl no matter how much Steph fans asks for it because it would upset the Babs fans who are bringing in more money. That's how comics work and Steph isn't going to get more popular unless there are more people are saying they love Steph as opposed to people saying Steph should be Batgirl.
Jason Todd got a huge fanbase because his small fanbase kept asking for a Jason Todd comic, despite the writers not liking him in post crisis. If fans ask for Steph, and keep asking for her even when she's there, in whatever costume they're willing to give her to us, maybe the same thing will happen to her.
I'm hoping that doomsday clock reinstates at least most of post crisis cannon and maybe then Stephs history as Batgirl will be restored, but even if that happens we still have to keep asking.

The current Batgirl run needs some kind of boost. I hope the new creative team gives it that, but I don't see why adding two former Batgirls who have sold at least as well in the past wouldn't help.

Again, since apparently I'm not being clear: this is NOT about replacing Babs. It's about all three Batgirls gaining something they've lost.

I have spent the last three years going to cons and telling Tynion and King and other writers and artists that I love Steph and I love when they write and draw her as Spoiler or any other character. I got two years of a run that I loved, but now we're looking at probably at least a year of pretty much nothing. I do keep asking for Steph - I'll continue to ask Hill and Bendis and anyone else who seems likely.

I also hope that Doomsday Clock restores a lot of what's been lost. But I don't expect it.

[millernumber1]

Jason was the Robin who died (actually, that isn't new, but it was on his time) and return "bad" that help him to develop a bigger fanbase. However, his time as Robin is still essential in his current popularity.

Eve Steph, the fact that she was Robin (for a extremely short time) call more attention about the terrible of her death and the mistreated of DC. If her death happened with only the identity of Spoiler, she would probably be forgotten in a long list of women mistreated by comics.


I would like Robin for Stephanie, because that would call attention of writers and fans. Also, interactions with Batman in this role would help her.

As I said, it seems that two people will share the title, it could be a third.

Much as I would love to see Robin Steph again, I don't think her current relationship with Batman would support that, and I think DC is much more resistant to the idea of her as Robin than her as Batgirl. We did get an honoring of her past as Robin in Tec 980, but I just get a sense that there's more of a chance for her as a multiple Batgirl than a multiple Robin, though Spoiler seems most likely for the forseeable future.

That being said, I would love it.

[Agent Z]

https://vavitsara.tumblr.com/post/17...atgirls-on-ice

[millernumber1]

https://vavitsara.tumblr.com/post/17...atgirls-on-ice

So beautiful!