Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2018

[millernumber1]

Agreed, she's very adaptable, so she could fit pretty much any role.

She's got a costumed identity, but could very easily be retooled into a supporting role for a bit. I don't mind the idea of her exploring ways she can help people out of costume, even while working directly with costumes.

That would be cool, though I really love Steph as a costumed hero - partly because she loves it herself so much (even when she's "against" costumed vigilantes, she's still one... )

[juffuj5]

Yeah, it was unlikely that she was ever going to join this franchise.
But where does she branch out to? Tynion did a serious number on her.

The best place for her right now is to put her in Outsiders, would love to see her interact with Cass more.

[millernumber1]

The best place for her right now is to put her in Outsiders, would love to see her interact with Cass more.

I'd be over the moon if we got cameos from Steph in both Outsiders and YJ. I've been trying to keep it in the back of Hill's mind on twitter ever since Outsiders was announced, and I'll probably try to be a tiny drop of water in the sea of Bendis's mentions, too.

[Armor of God]

I think most of us who hated the early 2000's Batjerk and late 00's Batgod loved every moment of that :P



Now that I think about it, Bendis not writing Steph would be a huge missed opportunity because she is one of the few characters his usual quippy dialogue would fit perfectly.

Except she never dealt with early 2000's Bat jerk or any incarnation of BatGod. Tynion's Batman was neither a jerk nor BatGod. Besides ol BatGod is starring/will star in 8 minis from this October to the next that we know of, 2 team books, 2 twice monthly solos, 2 events books,Tec 1000 almost all of which are written and drawn by top creators at DC. Steph is nowhere to be seen 8 months in. It cost her big time. DC has adjusted Tim in YJ, JPV in JLO, Cass in Outsiders with Duke no less. Even Kate will swing back because she has a show coming up.Steph now falls in the same category as retirees like Batwing and Harper Row.

[WonderNight]

It looks like tim may be dragged in YJ, I hope they don't de age Steph when she comes back. I like Steph being college age like she was when she was batgirl.

[millernumber1]

Except she never dealt with early 2000's Bat jerk or any incarnation of BatGod. Tynion's Batman was neither a jerk nor BatGod. Besides ol BatGod is starring/will star in 8 minis from this October to the next that we know of, 2 team books, 2 twice monthly solos, 2 events books,Tec 1000 almost all of which are written and drawn by top creators at DC. Steph is nowhere to be seen 8 months in. It cost her big time. DC has adjusted Tim in YJ, JPV in JLO, Cass in Outsiders with Duke no less. Even Kate will swing back because she has a show coming up.Steph now falls in the same category as retirees like Batwing and Harper Row.

Until someone at DC comes out and say "Oh, yeah, we all hated what James did with Steph, and that's why we're not doing anything with her," any assertions about it are completely groundless. You could just as justifiably say, "Oh, yeah, we all hated what BQM did with Steph, that's why we erased her for two years. Haha, we're not even going to let him use Steph in an alternate universe!"

It looks like tim may be dragged in YJ, I hope they don't de age Steph when she comes back. I like Steph being college age like she was when she was batgirl.

I'm a bit confused - Steph's been 17 since 2014, though.

[Armor of God]

Until someone at DC comes out and say "Oh, yeah, we all hated what James did with Steph, and that's why we're not doing anything with her," any assertions about it are completely groundless. You could just as justifiably say, "Oh, yeah, we all hated what BQM did with Steph, that's why we erased her for two years. Haha, we're not even going to let him use Steph in an alternate universe!"



I'm a bit confused - Steph's been 17 since 2014, though.

You and I both know they'd never do that but Tynion himself stated that many Steph fans have expressed their displeasure over his treatment of her.

[millernumber1]

You and I both know they'd never do that but Tynion himself stated that many Steph fans have expressed their displeasure over his treatment of her.

And many other Steph fans have said they understand and enjoy what he was doing.

But until you get a statement from DC, any kind of assertion that Tynion destroyed Steph is pointlessly inflammatory.

[Konja7]

And many other Steph fans have said they understand and enjoy what he was doing.

But until you get a statement from DC, any kind of assertion that Tynion destroyed Steph is pointlessly inflammatory.

However, many people (who likes Stephanie), don't like the role of Stephanie in Tynion's run.

That isn't good, because it can reduce her fanbase.

[reni344]

At this point, I have to wonder besides Tynion if anyone wanted to use her. YJ is coming back because Bendis had a pitch for them, Shazam is coming back because Johns had a pitch for them I have to wonder if the only reason she is not in a book anywhere is that no one asked to use her. Tynion could very well want to write her, but she does not fit in with anything he is currently writing.

[Armor of God]

And many other Steph fans have said they understand and enjoy what he was doing.

But until you get a statement from DC, any kind of assertion that Tynion destroyed Steph is pointlessly inflammatory.

Which makes her divisive, a status she cant afford and shouldn't have to be in such a situation. Damian and Jason, when people hate them I get it, Steph should not be divisive and if Tynion being a big fan should never have gotten such complaints in the first place.

[millernumber1]

However, many people (who likes Stephanie), don't like the role of Stephanie in Tynion's run.

That isn't good, because it can reduce her fanbase.

You are not wrong. But too often I see people saying they hate what Tynion did with Steph...but also saying they didn't even like her before. To me, it feels too much like most of the people who are like me, who loved her from her first appearances until 2011, left in 2011, and haven't really come back. I'm not talking about people who had a mild liking - I'm talking about the people who would have said Steph is their favorite character - people like the creator of the Steph wiki, who when I took over for her in 2014 said that she just wasn't up for another round of DC trying to do something with Steph, and then dropping her again.

Which is what's happened. And I don't think it's because of Tynion - I think it's because Tynion's the only person who really loves her. If Tynion had written an amazing story about Steph that got everyone on board, could we have seen more writers being interested in writing her, like what happened with Damian? Yes, so indirectly, you could say that Tynion didn't create enough excitement about Steph in his fellow writers. But I don't think Tynion himself made Tim popular among other writers so that Bendis wanted to use him - the interviews I've read about YJ from Bendis indicate that it's mostly coming from his own love of the original YJ stories, just as Tynion's love for Tim came from the original Dixon and Johns stories.

At this point, I have to wonder besides Tynion if anyone wanted to use her. YJ is coming back because Bendis had a pitch for them, Shazam is coming back because Johns had a pitch for them I have to wonder if the only reason she is not in a book anywhere is that no one asked to use her. Tynion could very well want to write her, but she does not fit in with anything he is currently writing.

I don't think there is. Seeley's shown he likes using her, but she's not one of his top characters. I think that's exactly the case.

[millernumber1]

Which makes her divisive, a status she cant afford and shouldn't have to be in such a situation. Damian and Jason, when people hate them I get it, Steph should not be divisive and if Tynion being a big fan should never have gotten such complaints in the first place.

Steph has ALWAYS been divisive. Why do you think they killed her in the first place, or erased her in the n52?

Steph's an outsider - she's never been someone who accepts Batman's word as law, and that's always caused problems for many Batman and Batfamily fans. Her rise has always depended on one or two writers who loved her.

Why do you think Steph should not be divisive? What about her is so compelling to you, in any incarnation?

[Konja7]

I think the point is that Tynion shouldn't become the character more divisive that she was before.

You are not wrong. But too often I see people saying they hate what Tynion did with Steph...but also saying they didn't even like her before. To me, it feels too much like most of the people who are like me, who loved her from her first appearances until 2011, left in 2011, and haven't really come back. I'm not talking about people who had a mild liking - I'm talking about the people who would have said Steph is their favorite character - people like the creator of the Steph wiki, who when I took over for her in 2014 said that she just wasn't up for another round of DC trying to do something with Steph, and then dropping her again.

Which is what's happened. And I don't think it's because of Tynion - I think it's because Tynion's the only person who really loves her. If Tynion had written an amazing story about Steph that got everyone on board, could we have seen more writers being interested in writing her, like what happened with Damian? Yes, so indirectly, you could say that Tynion didn't create enough excitement about Steph in his fellow writers. But I don't think Tynion himself made Tim popular among other writers so that Bendis wanted to use him - the interviews I've read about YJ from Bendis indicate that it's mostly coming from his own love of the original YJ stories, just as Tynion's love for Tim came from the original Dixon and Johns stories.

Well, I start to read comics because Stephanie Brown's Batgirl. She was my favorite character at that time (and she's still one of my favorite characters).

I saw people who really like her as Batgirl, but they dislike her role on Tynion's run.

I don't think this situation is good for the character. Although I still hope she will have a good role in the future.

[millernumber1]

I think the point is that Tynion shouldn't become the character more divisive that she was before.

Well, I start to read comics because Stephanie Brown's Batgirl. She was my favorite character at that time (and she's still one of my favorite characters).

I saw people who really like her as Batgirl, but they dislike her role on Tynion's run.

I don't think this situation is good for the character. Although I still hope she will have a good role in the future.

My argument is that Tynion didn't. We can argue that HOW Tynion made her divisive wasn't as effective as it could have been, but Steph has ALWAYS been incredibly divisive. Before she was Robin, she was "that annoying girl who chased Robin". When she was Robin, she wasn't good enough. After she was Robin, she was the girl who betrayed Batman and deserved to be tortured to death (and yes, I STILL get this every time I talk to people about War Games). When she returned from the dead, she was the stupid girl who worked against Tim because she was dumb enough to obey Batman for the first time (I really, really dislike FabNic's run on Robin). When she was Batgirl, she was the girl who stole it from Cass, and isn't as good as Babs.

Tynion has said that while he liked Steph's Batgirl run, that's not who Steph is for him. And I think that's true - because Steph as Batgirl is the Steph who's held on for 20 years, and finally has acceptance (a solo title) and support (a writer who loves her as much as Dixon loved her). The Steph fandom itself is pretty divided about her Batgirl run - there are those who think she was too cheerful and not complicated as Batgirl.

I think the situation we have that isn't good for Steph is that we only have one writer who loves Steph enough to put her in books constently, and he's been yanked by Snyder (not against his will, I stress, but I don't think he would have left before 1000 if Snyder hadn't asked him to do JLD and work on JL with him).