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  1. #9166
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Twister View Post
    Wow, those are rather depressing in varying ways but depressing nevertheless.
    You want depressing?

    I've been listening to warnings about Global Heating/Climate Crisis since I was ten. That's when I, personally, recall first hearing about it. For those who want an exact year, that's 1980, almost forty years in the past.

    What have we done since?

    NOTHING.

    This crap is still going on, and people are still arguing about it and whether it's real, and still ignoring the fact that serious crap needs to happen, and still playing politics, and still actively doing shit that accelerates the situation, and -- in the words of Bill Nye -- the world is on fire.

    So, yeah, I'm pretty glad I don't have kids because we.

    Are.

    Stone.

    Cold.

    Fucked.

    And worse - we're taking the ecosystem down with us.

    I mean, it's decent odds that I'm going to live long enough to see things fall apart (hooray, nice way to spend my retirement and 'golden' years). I think about the generation after mine, and the kids of my generation, and I pull my hair out looking at these people my age sitting around and still playing their games, letting their children's world burn.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  2. #9167
    Extraordinary Member Iron_Twister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    You want depressing?

    I've been listening to warnings about Global Heating/Climate Crisis since I was ten. That's when I, personally, recall first hearing about it. For those who want an exact year, that's 1980, almost forty years in the past.

    What have we done since?

    NOTHING.

    This crap is still going on, and people are still arguing about it and whether it's real, and still ignoring the fact that serious crap needs to happen, and still playing politics, and still actively doing shit that accelerates the situation, and -- in the words of Bill Nye -- the world is on fire.

    So, yeah, I'm pretty glad I don't have kids because we.

    Are.

    Stone.

    Cold.

    Fucked.

    And worse - we're taking the ecosystem down with us.

    I mean, it's decent odds that I'm going to live long enough to see things fall apart (hooray, nice way to spend my retirement and 'golden' years). I think about the generation after mine, and the kids of my generation, and I pull my hair out looking at these people my age sitting around and still playing their games, letting their children's world burn.
    ....Yep, this is flat out abysmal.

    Especially since my siblings do have kids.

  3. #9168
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Twister View Post
    ....Yep, this is flat out abysmal.

    Especially since my siblings do have kids.
    As much as I hate to say it, the more people who realize it's abysmal, the more chance we actually have of stuff happening to at least try to mitigate this crap. At this point, we're in the 'too little, almost too late' area.

    *shrugs* But people are more happy saying things like 'well, what I do won't matter' and the like, without thinking that -

    1. If everyone takes that attitude, might as well seriously just toss it in the toilet;
    2. Actually doing something might inspire others to do something, which might inspire more, which might put pressure on whatever, which might...
    3. Also, voting is actually something people can do.

    And on top of individuals doing F-all (mostly), politicians up here in Canada are still bitching back and forth about the Carbon Tax because it's a bloody election issue (much like a big chunk of the rest of the world).

    Screw partisan politics, we're gonna DIE. The kids are gonna DIE.

    *makes strangling motions with hands* Gggggh!

    People are going to sit back and wait for the government to save them, as always. And the government isn't going to lift a finger because the moment it comes up, half of the population starts bitching about 'But how much will that cost?' and puts the fear of 'election loss!' into them.

    How much will it cost?

    How much will it cost if we do nothing?
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 08-21-2019 at 07:03 AM. Reason: ...great justice, etc.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  4. #9169
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Hilariously -- in a hysterical, 'I can't believe this shit' kind of way -- things aren't actually getting better, they're getting worse.

    [Scientists] Oh, dear - melting of permafrost in Canada is liberating a gawdawful amount of methane we haven't factored into our calculations. Who knew that feedback loops could be so deadly?

    [Scientists] Oh, dear - who could have expected that the ice in the North would melt as quickly as it has this summer, creating even more feedback loops? We weren't expecting that for decades.

    Edit; [Scientists] Oh, dear - the Antarctica ice is actually melting far more quickly than we thought as well!

    [Scientists] Oh, dear - the Amazon is now burning at an unprecedented rate, not only removing our ability to sequester carbon, but putting a ton more in the atmo. Also, it'll be replaced by cattle ranches, creating a ton more methane.

    [Politicians] Don't worry, we're doing fine. We'll make it. Also, it might not be real. Go back to your various diversions, little sheep, and make sure to vote for us. Ignore all of those things scientists say; we know better. It's not like we have the various industries lobbying us with buckets of cash, you can trust us more than the scientists. And hey, you can AFFORD to trust us more than the scientists; if we're wrong, what's the worst that can happen?

    [Scientists] Here's a compilation of a massive amount of studies to show what the worst -

    [Politicians] It'll get a little warmer.

    [Scientists] But the data -

    [Politicians] IT'LL GET A LITTLE WARMER.

    *beats head against the wall*
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 08-21-2019 at 07:16 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  5. #9170
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    I mean, if you want to talk worst case scenarios that have already happened, the Syrian refugee crisis was heavily effected by climate change.

    Due to climate change, weather patterns shifted such that historic farmlands became too arid to grow food. This lead to famine in rural areas and thousands upon thousands of people headed to the capital and other major cities seeking food and employment because farms weren't viable any more. However, due to there not being enough employment, Syria's history of civil rights abuses and ongoing food shortages coupled with coinciding with the Arab Spring - this lead to mass civil unrest, massive state violence and civil war.

    500,000 people died in the war and millions fled the country. Greatly exacerbated by shifts in the weather.
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  6. #9171
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I mean, if you want to talk worst case scenarios that have already happened, the Syrian refugee crisis was heavily effected by climate change.

    Due to climate change, weather patterns shifted such that historic farmlands became too arid to grow food. This lead to famine in rural areas and thousands upon thousands of people headed to the capital and other major cities seeking food and employment because farms weren't viable any more. However, due to there not being enough employment, Syria's history of civil rights abuses and ongoing food shortages coupled with coinciding with the Arab Spring - this lead to mass civil unrest, massive state violence and civil war.

    500,000 people died in the war and millions fled the country. Greatly exacerbated by shifts in the weather.
    Absolutely. This is another thing we will start to see over and over again: wars and refugees caused by lack of resources due to climate change. This will heavily pressure other areas of the world, resulting in more conflict, more...you get the picture.

    We've seen it throughout history, and history is just replaying itself on a global scale now.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  7. #9172
    Astonishing Member Lord Falcon's Avatar
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    The North Pole is melting, opening brave new areas to drill for oil. O.o

    Can't say I'm of the 'we're doomed so none of us should have children' view. Absolutely not a rap on anyone's individual choice whether to have children.

    The Earth will survive in one form or another no matter how much carbon we manage to release through fossil fuels. We're not gonna get to the Venus stage. The question is whether humanity screws itself over and civilization collapses.

    Our technological, philosophical and cultural achievements are unprecedented in the history of the world. At no point have things been generally better than they have been in the past 20 years, and yet the very excesses that catapulted us to this point threaten to send us crashing back down unless we take a hard look at our willful blindness and systematic flaws and make serious shifts. My priority is that we survive, prosper and progress in a sustainable way, and I refuse to adopt any mindset for myself that prevents the continuation of the species, through which we are presently limited to reproduction. It seems counterproductive and self-defeating to me that some of the groups fighting hardest for the climate are also the groups saying we're so doomed that's it's irresponsible to have children. Overpopulation can be a problem, but it is not a problem in most advanced countries which are going to have the best tools to pull humanity through this mess both now and 50 years from now.

  8. #9173
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Falcon View Post
    The North Pole is melting, opening brave new areas to drill for oil. O.o

    Can't say I'm of the 'we're doomed so none of us should have children' view. Absolutely not a rap on anyone's individual choice whether to have children.
    Not saying people shouldn't. I'm just happy with my decision, made without thought to Global Heating.

    The Earth will survive in one form or another no matter how much carbon we manage to release through fossil fuels.
    Sure. No question of that. Even if it gets squashed back to 'bacteria' level or the like (or -- unlikely -- a completely lifeless rock), it's still the Earth.

    We're not gonna get to the Venus stage.
    Something we wouldn't be here to find out about, anyway.

    The question is whether humanity screws itself over and civilization collapses.

    Our technological, philosophical and cultural achievements are unprecedented in the history of the world. At no point have things been generally better than they have been in the past 20 years, and yet the very excesses that catapulted us to this point threaten to send us crashing back down unless we take a hard look at our willful blindness and systematic flaws and make serious shifts. My priority is that we survive, prosper and progress in a sustainable way, and I refuse to adopt any mindset for myself that prevents the continuation of the species, through which we are presently limited to reproduction. It seems counterproductive and self-defeating to me that some of the groups fighting hardest for the climate are also the groups saying we're so doomed that's it's irresponsible to have children. Overpopulation can be a problem, but it is not a problem in most advanced countries which are going to have the best tools to pull humanity through this mess both now and 50 years from now.
    I do not disagree with you. Frankly, I don't actually have a problem with people having a child -- I didn't because I didn't want to have kids (nor did my wife), and now looking at the future I'm pretty happy with that decision. But that's me.

    Now, there's area for discussion about whether or not the trend of having three, four, five kids that I saw when I was in my twenties was a good idea, but that's a different discussion.

    For the purpose of combatting global warming? Less is better. Including children.

    To survive in a sustainable way is going to take a radical shift in how people view society and how it will operate. I'm not sure we can manage that before society actually does collapse, considering that even if we start changing stuff in a big way now (and there is none of that in sight), the Earth will continue heating up.

    We would not really be overpopulated now, were we living differently. We are 'overpopulated' when it comes to living at the level to which we have become accustomed, in the manner in which we have become accustomed, with the systems to which we have become accustomed, and the mess that all of this produces. It isn't the population that's the issue so much as 'this size of population with the kind of societies we have creating the mess'. If we changed our societies -- rapidly and drastically -- we could maintain this population and get to our targets (which would still cause all kinds of havoc, but hey, potentially havoc that the ecosystem would in some way survive).

    Jared Diamond has a wonderful book about how we've managed to destroy ourselves -- and save ourselves -- in the past. Collapse. It's worth reading. It points out that while we -- humanity -- are capable of pulling ourselves out of messes (and have in the past) and thus there is hope, it also makes the case that our track record for so doing is...pretty lousy.

    We have a nasty habit of ignoring the problem or minimizing the problem until it's too late.

    ...which kind of resembles the current situation. Which is why I hope everyone starts DOING something, 'in their own backyard' without worrying about whether or not others are doing the same. Just do it, like Nike says.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 08-21-2019 at 08:28 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  9. #9174
    Incredible Member FistofIron's Avatar
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    My request for a phone conference has been approved. Hopefully this nonsense is over by tomorrow.

  10. #9175
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FistofIron View Post
    My request for a phone conference has been approved. Hopefully this nonsense is over by tomorrow.
    Good luck, man. Can you get it with video? That would help.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  11. #9176
    Incredible Member FistofIron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Good luck, man. Can you get it with video? That would help.
    That was part of my request so hopefully.

  12. #9177
    I turn into a BIRD! The Dog's Avatar
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    And there's two more from the same guy.
    Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence.
    - C.S. Lewis

  13. #9178
    Incredible Member FistofIron's Avatar
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    A new chapter of Abyss Rage is out and I fear for Kimijima at the moment. Hopefully he has something up his sleeve. He should’ve just stuck to strikes.

  14. #9179

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Falcon View Post
    Our technological, philosophical and cultural achievements are unprecedented in the history of the world.
    I have to wonder how you can measure philosophical 'achievements'.

    The average individual is no more versed in philosophy than they've been at any other point in history, and if anything the field is enduring a level of ridicule and lack of legitimacy that's pretty far from the respect it received at various points in history.
    Last edited by Siriel; 08-21-2019 at 10:52 AM.

  15. #9180
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    I have to wonder how you can measure philosophical 'achievements'.

    The average individual is no more versed in philosophy than they've been at any other point in history, and if anything the field is enduring a level of ridicule and lack of legitimacy that's pretty far from the respect it received at various points in history.
    Oh, I don’t know. It depends on the philosophy. For example, I think the average human is about as near the pinnacle of solipsism as any society could possibly achieve before all social order would inevitably dissolve, irrevocably.

    Or, to re-phrase, the average human is so fucking self-absorbed, self-centred and generally dismissive of the world around them that we’re on a fast train to disappearing up our own rectum and the world going to hell in a handcart while we figuratively fiddle.

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