Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[Beadle]

Man Tyson Fury put on a rather epic performance.

Sadly I didn’t watch it, but it sounds like he completely schooled Wilder.

I’ve thought for a while that he’d win, and I don’t think AJ can beat him either.

Yeah dude it was bad.

AJ should fair a bit better because he’s not as limited as Wilder but see him losing too.

So Wilder now claims that Fury didn’t hurt him but the reason he lost was that his ring entrance costume was too heavy so his legs were tired.

I mean... wow. Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.

[Sharpandpointies]

So Wilder now claims that Fury didn’t hurt him but the reason he lost was that his ring entrance costume was too heavy so his legs were tired.

I mean... wow. Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.

Ohmygod...gaslighting to cover up one's losses when they happen in a professional sport? In front of everyone?

That's a new low. A new sad, pathetic low. Dude must have an ego the size of the planet, and self-confidence the size of a peanut.

[FistofIron]

So Wilder now claims that Fury didn’t hurt him but the reason he lost was that his ring entrance costume was too heavy so his legs were tired.

I mean... wow. Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.

Seriously? I know it must such to get beat down like that but take your loss like a man.

[Beadle]

Ohmygod...gaslighting to cover up one's losses when they happen in a professional sport? In front of everyone?

That's a new low. A new sad, pathetic low. Dude must have an ego the size of the planet, and self-confidence the size of a peanut.

Seriously? I know it must such to get beat down like that but take your loss like a man.

My thoughts exactly.

Oh, and ‘despite what it looked like I was still in the fight’ so he’s mad at his corner for throwing in the towel, because he’s told them never to do that. The guy was beat and dead on his feet. Were his corner just supposed to let him die?

[Sharpandpointies]

Seriously? I know it must such to get beat down like that but take your loss like a man.

Dude, while I get the drift that expression is out of style. And for a solid number of reasons. ^_^

[FistofIron]

Dude, while I get the drift that expression is out of style. And for a solid number of reasons. ^_^

Oh yeah? How so?

[Sharpandpointies]

Oh, and ‘despite what it looked like I was still in the fight’ so he’s mad at his corner for throwing in the towel, because he’s told them never to do that. The guy was beat and dead on his feet. Were his corner just supposed to let him die?

Basically "I was still in the fight because I was capable of praying I'd get lucky and, defying the evidence of everything that happened before this point and the fact that I was exhausted and hurt, I might KO him with one punch."

Soooo...yeah. Whiner x 10.

[FistofIron]

My thoughts exactly.

Oh, and ‘despite what it looked like I was still in the fight’ so he’s mad at his corner for throwing in the towel, because he’s told them never to do that. The guy was beat and dead on his feet. Were his corner just supposed to let him die?

I can understand wanting to go out on your shield but his corner did the right thing.

[Lord Falcon]

Eh, there are plenty of great aspects of masculinity that have no social toxicity or thin-skinned tendencies inherent to them. Being able to take a hit/loss and not bullshit about it is one of them.

[Sharpandpointies]

Oh yeah? How so?

Okay --

1. It implies that it's 'not-men' who whine and complain and are poor losers. And women are one of that 'Not-man' group (I understand, it might also imply 'you're being a child', but really, we should say 'like an adult' if that's the case, especially since there is no 'take your loss like a woman' phrase that's meant in any way positively towards women...every statement I hear men say about 'loss' and 'woman' tends to be a negative one);
2. In my experience, an awful lot of men tend to be poor losers.

So.... ^_^ I just think it might be better to replace the phrase with something like...'take your loss like an adult'.

[Sharpandpointies]

He, there are plenty of great aspects of masculinity that have no social toxicity or thin-skinned tendencies inherent to them. Being able to take a hit is one of them.

I think that's inherent to adulthood, not masculinity. Women suffer loss in silence or in good grace AT LEAST as well as men tend to.

Edit: It should be noted that I'm talking about 'taking losses of some kind', not 'taking a punch in the face'. Men -- being on average larger, bigger boned, and carrying more muscle mass -- TEND to have the capacity to take hits better than a woman does, on a purely physical basis. ^_^

[FistofIron]

Okay --

1. It implies that it's 'not-men' who whine and complain and are poor losers. And women are one of that 'Not-man' group (I understand, it might also imply 'you're being a child', but really, we should say 'like an adult' if that's the case, especially since there is no 'take your loss like a woman' phrase that's meant in any way positively towards women...every statement I hear men say about 'loss' and 'woman' tends to be a negative one);
2. In my experience, an awful lot of men tend to be poor losers.

So.... ^_^ I just think it might be better to replace the phrase with something like...'take your loss like an adult'.

Be a man or man up is something that I’ve heard men and women say. It has nothing to do with looking down on women.

[Nik Hasta]

Be a man or man up is something that I’ve heard men and women say. It has nothing to do with looking down on women.

You might not mean it in that way but it's a phrase that's not rooted in a good or healthy perspective. It also reinforces the notion in other contexts that men, by definition, cannot show emotions other than stoicism or rage.

Being a man is three dimensional, there is no true masculine archetype and trying to cleave to such a thing only creates tension, exclusion and, in the worst cases, bigotry.

Personally, I continue to remove overly gendered expressions from my vocabulary. I also got a lot of non binary friends so I'm doubly motivated to not indulge in language of that type.

[Sharpandpointies]

Be a man or man up is something that I’ve heard men and women say. It has nothing to do with looking down on women.

Not saying you were looking down on women, yourself. I'm saying the phrase can be taken as sexist, and it doesn't matter if a woman says it, the implication can be there.

Also, I don't particularly feel it's accurate, myself. ^_^

Also, this isn't a 'Hey, FistofIron, how DARE you use such speech, get out!' discussion. It's a 'I'm don't think that's a good phrase anymore' kind of thing.

[Sharpandpointies]

You might not mean it in that way but it's a phrase that's not rooted in a good or healthy perspective. It also reinforces the notion in other contexts that men, by definition, cannot show emotions other than stoicism or rage.

Being a man is three dimensional, there is no true masculine archetype and trying to cleave to such a thing only creates tension, exclusion and, in the worst cases, bigotry.

Personally, I continue to remove overly gendered expressions from my vocabulary. I also got a lot of non binary friends so I'm doubly motivated to not indulge in language of that type.

Nik, as usual, has an even more nuanced explanation. Well-said.