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  1. #12571
    Mighty Member FistofIron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Not saying you were looking down on women, yourself. I'm saying the phrase can be taken as sexist, and it doesn't matter if a woman says it, the implication can be there.

    Also, I don't particularly feel it's accurate, myself. ^_^

    Also, this isn't a 'Hey, FistofIron, how DARE you use such speech, get out!' discussion. It's a 'I'm don't think that's a good phrase anymore' kind of thing.
    This is honestly the first I’ve heard of that phrase being sexist. It’s all good. Different views.

  2. #12572
    Astonishing Member Lord Falcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    I think that's inherent to adulthood, not masculinity. Women suffer loss in silence or in good grace AT LEAST as well as men tend to.

    Edit: It should be noted that I'm talking about 'taking losses of some kind', not 'taking a punch in the face'. Men -- being on average larger, bigger boned, and carrying more muscle mass -- TEND to have the capacity to take hits better than a woman does, on a purely physical basis. ^_^
    Sometimes, I find people unnecessarily tear down entire social conventions or cultures rather than seeking to reform them for a better world. At one level, we can say that the concept of masculinity is bullshit. We can realize that it's all bullshit: Feminity, masculinity, what we consider polite, how to drink whisky, what constitutes real pizza (kidding, Chicago pizza isn't pizza). Then we can realize that social conventions play a very helpful role in people's lives as guidelines on some way of being or acting. Becoming trapped by them is a danger, but that's the case with any social convention.

    Manliness has nothing to do with what a woman can be. At least, that's in line with my conception of gender conventions. It's a collection of behaviors associated with one's idealized and hopefully continually evolving idea of what being a good man is about, which one may take some for their own identity or none, as they please. And I don't see why people have to abandon that because we're recognizing that some harmful behaviors and ways of thinking are claimed by other people who think they own what manliness is about.

    So if I had a problem with the phrase "be a man about it," it would be the notion that anyone has an obligation to be manly or that the speaker owns the exclusive vision of what manliness is. But I have no problem with masculinity existing as a social convention any more than being a nerd, or a goth, or any other social identity.
    Last edited by Lord Falcon; 02-25-2020 at 07:04 AM.

  3. #12573
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    I personally think that there's too much in past things rooted in rather venomous concepts of male identity versus female identity. Right now, we're trying to change that (I hope) in the world. In order to change perspectives and change cultures, actual change must happen. Not just in 'we need to think about this' but in 'this needs to be discarded', or 'this needs to be added'. That's change.

    So I feel that recognizing stuff that could be rooted in those past ideas is worth doing, and then removing those things from our culture (our 'personal culture', at the least, though I'd like to see them just disappear from our overall social cultures).

    Regarding the specifics, 'Be a man about it' for me also implies that it is the sole providence of 'true men' to be 'good losers'. It also implies that if one wants to be a man, one must have a specific outlook (thank you, Nik, for that point, and it's a good one). I feel that tying positive or negative traits to a gender isn't healthy, and reinforce the idea of that gender having a specific role to play. And I wish societies and cultures could step away from that, and move toward people being individuals (yes, I know we will likely always have labels and will always tend to group, etc, etc, but I would like to see less and less emphasis on that and more and more emphasis on seeing people as individuals -- I say this to preempt any Nirvana Fallacy arguments that might come flying my way after stating such).

    I'm oversimplifying, but that's my point of view.

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  4. #12574
    Mighty Member FistofIron's Avatar
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    I wish that Dynamite would’ve continued with its pulp line of comics. The Spider written by David Lisa was top notch.

    Now that Jim Lee is in charge I wonder what changes will be made?

  5. #12575
    E-Liter3K Scoped Headshot The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Ohmygod...gaslighting to cover up one's losses when they happen in a professional sport? In front of everyone?

    That's a new low. A new sad, pathetic low. Dude must have an ego the size of the planet, and self-confidence the size of a peanut.
    Really? Sounds pretty standard for Pro Wrestling. Which is the context I've heard of him in. What sport is this Tyson Fury guy in, anyway?

    *looks it up*

    Oh, he's a boxer. Presumably this Wilder guy is Deontay Wilder, then.

    I didn't even think those guys WORE enough clothes to weigh them down.
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  6. #12576
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Really? Sounds pretty standard for Pro Wrestling. Which is the context I've heard of him in. What sport is this Tyson Fury guy in, anyway?
    ^_^

    Pro-wrestling is scripted, though, with intentional drama and so forth.

    This...was a boxer who got schooled.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  7. #12577
    Mighty Member FistofIron's Avatar
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    Karl Edward Wagner’s Kane series is available on kindle. I wish they could’ve used the Frank Frazetta covers.

  8. #12578
    Voice of the Authorities Cleric of Hellís Brigade's Avatar
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    ‘Man up’ and ‘be a man about it’ are interesting phrases.

    I have four sisters, all have kids (one niece has kids too). All use both phrases for their kids. From what I understand, from them it’s not about wanting them to be the old arch type of no emotion, tough, “men” but to start acting like an adult, or stop complaining when given a task.

    Now, I have also heard it used in the toxic, older style, too (at work and other places).

    They both seem to be phrases that change with the intent behind them, like many, many words and phrases.
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  9. #12579
    Postmania Champion Gryphon's Avatar
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  10. #12580
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Just do a live action with Keanu Reeves.
    ""Bead War threw evil emission... f."

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  11. #12581
    Astonishing Member KingofPie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryphon View Post
    Gtaphics could use some tweaking, but If the gameplay is as smooth as it looks, I'm in.

  12. #12582
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    I personally think that there's too much in past things rooted in rather venomous concepts of male identity versus female identity. Right now, we're trying to change that (I hope) in the world. In order to change perspectives and change cultures, actual change must happen. Not just in 'we need to think about this' but in 'this needs to be discarded', or 'this needs to be added'. That's change.

    So I feel that recognizing stuff that could be rooted in those past ideas is worth doing, and then removing those things from our culture (our 'personal culture', at the least, though I'd like to see them just disappear from our overall social cultures).

    Regarding the specifics, 'Be a man about it' for me also implies that it is the sole providence of 'true men' to be 'good losers'. It also implies that if one wants to be a man, one must have a specific outlook (thank you, Nik, for that point, and it's a good one). I feel that tying positive or negative traits to a gender isn't healthy, and reinforce the idea of that gender having a specific role to play. And I wish societies and cultures could step away from that, and move toward people being individuals (yes, I know we will likely always have labels and will always tend to group, etc, etc, but I would like to see less and less emphasis on that and more and more emphasis on seeing people as individuals -- I say this to preempt any Nirvana Fallacy arguments that might come flying my way after stating such).

    I'm oversimplifying, but that's my point of view.

    Mileage may vary, and likely does.
    I would, unsurprisingly, largely agree with Sharp.

    To paraphrase Dan Danskin, gender - much like money and race - is only real because we make it real. It is a construct and constructs are mutable. As a a straight man who grew up in western world in the 90s, I have had to unlearn an awful lot of quite ugly prejudices and biases based around what being "a man" is "meant to be," Those prejudices have done harm to me and, in a few cases, damaged my relationships to others prior to me recognising them.

    I'm now in my 30s and I have very little time for anyone positing an idea of what being a man should be or should mean. I have met far too many different kinds of men and I have changed far too much to think that the construct really holds any meaning outside of a colloquial shorthand for my biological sex.

    With regards to the linguistics, this serves to me as an example of how insidious patriarchal ideologies can be. It's in our language, it's in our art and our culture and if we don't root it out it will only grow and fester into a lot of the ugliness we see in the world today. I'm not looking to denigrate people who do use said phrases or whatever but I think it's kind of necessary to engage with it if you are to move the needle at all.

    And to briefly touch on a more concrete example of why I think men themselves should be looking into this, I reference you to the UK based charity CALM whom I occasionally donate to and would recommend donating to if you are so inclined.

    The biggest killer of men under 45 in my country is suicide and research has found it is in part because men believe that they cannot show weakness or negative emotions like sadness or grief or be seen not to cope. It drives men to literally kill themselves rather than reach out because the grips of gender conventions and what is "expected" of them are that strong.

    Telling someone to "man up", to me, is antiquated language telling someone to suppress themselves and to soldier on without seeking help based on their biology rather than who they actually are. It reinforces the idea that a man is always okay and, if he is not, then he is not a man and his whole identity is in question.

    By all means, have ideas about what men could be but they will always be far too limited to what people could be and are.

    This got long but I do feel very strongly about this sort of thing. As noted multiple times, I'm not looking to make anyone feel attacked or shamed by my feelings on the topic.
    Last edited by Nik Hasta; 02-25-2020 at 10:57 AM.
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  13. #12583
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    One Piece: Oden's story ends and it seems like it's time for this flashback to do so as well. There are still a few questions to be answered about the time when Toki sent everybody into the future/present/whatever. But I guess that we're moving into the main action of the arc soon and for those things to be revealed at a later more dramatic point.

    Also, still calling that Jinbei will save the day and help everybody out in the present.

    Samurai 8: Hey, it seems like Kishimoto has learned how to properly write a healthy romantic relationship with natural progression. Good on him.

    And the visual set piece scenes in this series are still off the charts. Giant space mechs crashing into each other is just cool.

    SPY X FAMILY: Anya saved the day by sneakily stopping her dad from being blown up.

    Loid/Twilight saved the day by luring away the sole terrorist from his target and then incapacitating the bomb dog without killing it and disposing of the bomb.

    Yor saved the day by sending the terrorist's speeding car crashing into a streetlight with a single kick.

    And now the Forgers have a dog that can see the future! But only the mind-reading daughter know that it can see the future!

    This manga is delightful!

  14. #12584
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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  15. #12585
    E-Liter3K Scoped Headshot The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    ^_^

    Pro-wrestling is scripted, though, with intentional drama and so forth.

    This...was a boxer who got schooled.
    Oh yeah, I just assumed there were whiney guys who would try to offer excuses as to why they lost rather than just "I'm not the best at what I do" in any sport.
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