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  1. #17281
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiromi View Post
    I'm going a bit over the top here for fun and it only amounts to a few weeks this time, but there are some mitigating factors in this one that annoy me, the first is that CDPR has spent virtually the entire last month crowing about how the game had gone gold(industry speak for it's done and ready to ship out for production) and saying flatly that there wouldn't be any more delays(also the utterly overblown outrage over the devs having to work a few 6 day weeks, In refuse to say crunch because what they were doing was not even remotely close to what usually gets called crunch). And the reason it's being delayed is almost certainly a console one, and well we PC user get uppity when our games get delayed because of consoles, especially when CDPR is having to optimize a game for 7 different platforms(4 different versions of Xbox alone). Honestly though the most likely reason is the next gen dev kits weren't even made available until late in the production.
    I totally get frustration. And I understand it, and I REALLY understand PC users being frustrated because console stuff is holding something up. And yeah, most of the time that's the direction that things go.

    I've just had enough, myself, of games that show up supposedly finished when clearly they aren't. Ugh. Maybe that doesn't happen on PC as much, but by god it has become the norm on consoles.

    So, different perspectives and different feelings AND for sure a different situation (console/PC).
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  2. #17282
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiromi View Post
    (also the utterly overblown outrage over the devs having to work a few 6 day weeks, In refuse to say crunch because what they were doing was not even remotely close to what usually gets called crunch).
    As I recall, CDPR went on record last year saying "Oh we don't do crunch conditions at CDPR and won't be doing it on Cyberpunk,"

    And then they sent a company-wide email announcing mandatory six day weeks and, according to leaks from CDPR devs, they've actually been operating in a form of crunch working for several months now; working weekends and clocking in 16 hour days. Further to that, staff are apparently not being adequately compensated for their work which sucks even more.

    Whatever your feelings on the game and it's development, that's a pretty shitty move on the part of CDPR management.
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  3. #17283
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    As I recall, CDPR went on record last year saying "Oh we don't do crunch conditions at CDPR and won't be doing it on Cyberpunk,"

    And then they sent a company-wide email announcing mandatory six day weeks and, according to leaks from CDPR devs, they've actually been operating in a form of crunch working for several months now; working weekends and clocking in 16 hour days. Further to that, staff are apparently not being adequately compensated for their work which sucks even more.

    Whatever your feelings on the game and it's development, that's a pretty shitty move on the part of CDPR management.
    ...that does sound like crap, yes.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  4. #17284
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Between the working conditions and appalling quality of most of the Xbox games I've looked into, I'm rapidly becoming disenchanted with the gaming industry.

    The only thing I'm really looking forward to these days is the Remastered Mass Effect, anyway.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  5. #17285
    Lin Kuei Grandmaster Sub-Zero MKA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Wasn't involved in that, but there was a lot of talk from the principal players. ^_^ So the name seemed familiar.
    She's one of my all-time favorite characters no doubt. Had a lot of fun writing for her

  6. #17286
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-Zero MKA View Post
    She's one of my all-time favorite characters no doubt. Had a lot of fun writing for her
    SHR3 did have a huge amount of discussion happening in Rumbles about it. I poked my head into the discussion area from time to time myself.

    ...sometimes because there were issues, if I recall correctly. But mostly just to look. ^_^
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  7. #17287
    Lin Kuei Grandmaster Sub-Zero MKA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    SHR3 did have a huge amount of discussion happening in Rumbles about it. I poked my head into the discussion area from time to time myself.

    ...sometimes because there were issues, if I recall correctly. But mostly just to look. ^_^
    It's been so long I can't even remember what those problems were lol

  8. #17288
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-Zero MKA View Post
    It's been so long I can't even remember what those problems were lol
    something something Captain England, as Pendaran might say.

    Unless that was SHR 2.

    I can't really remember either.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  9. #17289
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    something something Captain England, as Pendaran might say.

    Unless that was SHR 2.

    I can't really remember either.
    You're thinking of Codex of the Gods, which you were in briefly.

    SHR3 was pretty drama free as I recall. I did my usual thing of joining the game, ignoring everyone else, quitting midway through and then re-joining briefly in the third act only to drop out again.
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  10. #17290
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    You're thinking of Codex of the Gods, which you were in briefly.

    SHR3 was pretty drama free as I recall. I did my usual thing of joining the game, ignoring everyone else, quitting midway through and then re-joining briefly in the third act only to drop out again.
    Oh, there was Codex, but that one didn't have me actually kicking people out of the discussion thread, if I recall. Despite the drama.

    ...that might have been Codex 2. Wasn't there one of those?

    Either way, clearly not SHR 3. ^_^
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  11. #17291
    Lin Kuei Grandmaster Sub-Zero MKA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    something something Captain England, as Pendaran might say.

    Unless that was SHR 2.

    I can't really remember either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    You're thinking of Codex of the Gods, which you were in briefly.

    SHR3 was pretty drama free as I recall. I did my usual thing of joining the game, ignoring everyone else, quitting midway through and then re-joining briefly in the third act only to drop out again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Oh, there was Codex, but that one didn't have me actually kicking people out of the discussion thread, if I recall. Despite the drama.

    ...that might have been Codex 2. Wasn't there one of those?

    Either way, clearly not SHR 3. ^_^
    Ah, yeah. Cap was supposed to play in SHR3 until something happened that resulted in him I think getting banned before the game even started. Don't even remember what the problem was even about, but knowing him, he deserved it.

  12. #17292
    Extraordinary Member Hiromi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    As I recall, CDPR went on record last year saying "Oh we don't do crunch conditions at CDPR and won't be doing it on Cyberpunk,"

    And then they sent a company-wide email announcing mandatory six day weeks and, according to leaks from CDPR devs, they've actually been operating in a form of crunch working for several months now; working weekends and clocking in 16 hour days. Further to that, staff are apparently not being adequately compensated for their work which sucks even more.

    Whatever your feelings on the game and it's development, that's a pretty shitty move on the part of CDPR management.
    I don't know anything about those leaks except they run counter to other Dev statements that the overtime push came after a group discussion and overall vote from the dev staff vs another delay(which apparently happened anyway), also the compensated stuff runs counter to stories that say they are being compensated at overtime rates if for no other reason due to Polish labor laws, which also set hard caps on the amount of hours they can log(no more than 48 hour weeks, 150 hours of OT a year maximum). Add to that CDPR employees receive a bonus that amounts to 10% of the companies annual profit(meaning they're incentivized to have it done before the new year as well as obviously opening sales means a massive boost to the bonus pool). Again this is a FAR cry from the horror stories you hear from around the industry, to the point that were it not for them and the general culture they inspire, it would have barely made a blip in the news. As for the no crunch statement, eh seems crappy but then you remember the game's release date at that point was April 16th. The likely outcome of a full delay without the overtime now seems obviously spring 2021, and it really stretches a company to keep the hype level for a release up after that much delay. Games that see seemingly perpetual delays tend to pick up really negative tags to them.
    Last edited by Hiromi; 10-28-2020 at 09:12 AM.

  13. #17293
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-Zero MKA View Post
    Ah, yeah. Cap was supposed to play in SHR3 until something happened that resulted in him I think getting banned before the game even started. Don't even remember what the problem was even about, but knowing him, he deserved it.
    Was in Codex II, then, that I probably needed to hoof him out of the discussion thread for a while. Memory lane.

    Thanks, Subby. ^_^
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  14. #17294
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiromi View Post
    I don't know anything about those leaks except they run counter to other Dev statements that the overtime push came after a group discussion and overall vote from the dev staff vs another delay(which apparently happened anyway), also the compensated stuff runs counter to stories that say they are being compensated at overtime rates if for no other reason due to Polish labor laws, which also set hard caps on the amount of hours they can log(no more than 48 hour weeks, 150 hours of OT a year maximum). Add to that CDPR employees receive a bonus that amounts to 10% of the companies annual profit(meaning they're incentivized to have it done before the new year as well as obviously opening sales means a massive boost to the bonus pool). Again this is a FAR cry from the horror stories you hear from around the industry, to the point that were it not for them and the general culture they inspire, it would have barely made a blip in the news. As for the no crunch statement, eh seems crappy but then you remember the game's release date at that point was April 16th. The likely outcome of a full delay without the overtime now seems obviously spring 2021, and it really stretches a company to keep the hype level for a release up after that much delay. Games that see seemingly perpetual delays tend to pick up really negative tags to them.
    Polite requests for some line breaks Hiromi, this was a little tricky to read.

    I don't disagree the assertion that CDPR generally represents the best case scenario of a AAA game studio in terms of their attitude to consumers and their general business practices. That said, I've not seen any of instances of CDPR employees saying they did agree to the crunch vs delay thing you make reference to, only multiple iterations of people stating the opposite.

    Also, even if you're being paid, 16 hour days or, according to the lead reporting on it, 100 hour weeks are really tough even if you are being paid. Like, I have had jobs like that and I hated doing it even though I was paid for it.

    As someone who isn't very interested in the game myself (it looks good and all but just not my sort of thing) I have very limited skin in the argument; my only concern is that CDPR treat their employees fairly. As far as hype goes, I don't think the hype is going to suffer overmuch with a delay. It's been five years since the Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk is probably the most anticipated game of the generation at the moment, even with this kind of backlash, I predict it's still going to sell absolute gangbusters and probably be the GOTY whichever year it comes out in.
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  15. #17295
    Extraordinary Member Hiromi's Avatar
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    Sorry, my hairbrain post writing style can snowball beyond what I intended to write sometimes

    If the 16 hour day thing 100 hour weeks turns out to be true then yeah fully agree, that's more akin to the horror stories you hear from other companies that operate in the states, but again that part would seem to violate Polish labor laws which expressly forbids exceeding 48 hour work weeks, so I'm not sure that should be taken without copious amounts of salt grains

    The report that the devs agreed to the mandatory OT plan as opposed to another delay originally came from a gameinformer podcast with another journalist who had been covering it. And there's honestly been so much back and forth to really make me not even want to follow it any more, but hey, par the course for gaming journalism
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