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  1. #406
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-Zero MKA View Post
    Man, I wish I had known about the Shajads when making my character. Meseguis is perfect for Ardelyn.


    EDIT: On second thought, scratch that. Ardelyn's literally consumed by grief and hatred, so she's the exact person Meseguis is NOT looking to synch with.
    Also really not the best combo for a relationship with Solomon (but then I’ve been really slack on that end lately - must fix that tomorrow).

    One with Elan of Gabriel and the other attuned to Meseguis is not a good mix!

  2. #407
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Falcon View Post
    I don't have Gaia II. What messed up stuff has Azrael done?
    I’ve heard some stuff but I don’t have the book either, so Sharp or Siriel will need to enlighten.

    But basically Azrael is a frickin’ zealot who’d throw anyone (innocent or otherwise) under a bus to do damage to the Shajads, or her perception of evil, or DIE BY MY SWORD, DOER OF FOUL DEEDS!!!

    And by “who’d throw anyone under a bus”, I mean she would literally do just that if Anima actually had buses, and has done equivalent or worse. Think a celestial Frank Castle but without the mercy.

  3. #408
    Lin Kuei Grandmaster Sub-Zero MKA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    Also really not the best combo for a relationship with Solomon (but then I’ve been really slack on that end lately - must fix that tomorrow).

    One with Elan of Gabriel and the other attuned to Meseguis is not a good mix!
    Most definitely. The way she is now, Ardelyn isn't looking for vengeance -- oddly, given her personality -- but just looking for some way to move on. Solomon's done a great deal to help in that regard.
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  4. #409
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    This might be because Jiro is one of my favourite character in the series, but I really like her ultimate.

  5. #410
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-Zero MKA View Post
    Most definitely. The way she is now, Ardelyn isn't looking for vengeance -- oddly, given her personality -- but just looking for some way to move on. Solomon's done a great deal to help in that regard.
    Definitely a huge journey for her. It’s fascinating to read - she’s changed more than anyone but ina really organic, natural way. It’s seriously great stuff.

  6. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post

    I figure my own perspective is pretty well beaten into the ground, now. I understand yours, but if you want to clarify further based on what I've written, by all means. I won't really be writing another giant opinion dump in response, though, because...again, I've probably beaten this into the ground.
    That's understandable, feel free to ignore anything in this post that you don't wish to address. It's mostly just clarification on my end.

    It's not an anti-PC thing, from my perspective; it's just the setting itself. That it happens to place some checks and balances upon how people go about doing their businesses, that's a perk for me. Not for everyone, but for me (as both player and GM)? Sure.
    It's not that checks and balances exist that I don't like. Having powerful NPC's in the world is just solid world building unless you have a set up where the PC's are the first or only group with beastly powers. Even then how people without the beast powers react will depend on what the PC's do. If they are bad, people will still try to stop or placate them to make them not be bad. I also hear you about the groups having more nuance than just anti-PC beasting. But that just goes hand in hand with writing a setting. You aren't going to list the reasons those organizations exist as "keep PC's in line". Even when that's exactly what they are there for.

    In anima those two organizations exist as counters to the specific problems that are likely to come up with RPG players. Not so much in-setting where said powers are rare and/or hard to acquire. But specifically with PC's who are by definition the exceptions to having these powers. Now as you said this is what the author wanted. But I wonder why then he wasted so much page space filling it with powers and options you are generally not intended to use except in what amounts to plot device necessity. Maybe that's just how you play and view the setting compared to how it is. But it seems like the author should of just stuck to the powers they wanted the PC's to use as opposed having a setting that punishes those that use a solid chunk of the powers.

    For example, that you specifically mention even the Imperium has a branch that punishes those that make money with magic just smacks of metaGMing. They don't care if currency gets devalued to nothing if the world gets reset to the stone age, but care if someone makes a magical money printer? That's why I dislike those kind of groups because sooner or later you get things like that, that blatantly exist just to trip up the PC's. Because the Inquisition/various nations would be enough to stop that for the most part in-setting. You don't need the "super special secret club that only gets involved if the world is going explode" for that. It's like the Justice League having a special branch for breaking up movie piracy rings.

    I like checks and balances for the most part. Just not things that really only exist for checks and balances. GM's of your quality don't really need anti-PC monstering groups. You have enough experience, and presumably play with people that don't need constant smacking. With inexperienced GM's however, this can easily set a dangerous habit of overreliance on having a "push button to put PC's back in line" style of GMing. Which isn't an ideal mindset for new GM's. You could say it's on the GM, and it is. But realistically most settings are for the benefit of novice GM's. Many experienced GM's tend to use homebrew unless they really like a setting. In which case they tend to run it more fairly than newbies do. It's not merely this being a personal preference it's also a case of it can easily teach new GM's bad habits for play.

  7. #412
    Lin Kuei Grandmaster Sub-Zero MKA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    Definitely a huge journey for her. It’s fascinating to read - she’s changed more than anyone but ina really organic, natural way. It’s seriously great stuff.
    Thanks, my man. She still has a ways to go, like reconciling with Tasha and getting over her racism, but it's been a fun ride so far. ^_^
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  8. #413

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    My Forum check it out

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  9. #414
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    The podcast we recorded tonight won't drop for a week or two but BlacKKKlansman is really good. I'd highly recommend seeing it.

  10. #415
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    due to some issues, the date got pushed back but....................this thursday, "new world" hits amazon.

    pre-orders are now open.

  11. #416
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    due to some issues, the date got pushed back but....................this thursday, "new world" hits amazon.

    pre-orders are now open.
    You know what that means folks!


    Party At The Wilsons!

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  12. #417
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    You know what that means folks!


    Party At The Wilsons!

    Law's Buying!
    because of course he is.

  13. #418
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Falcon View Post
    I don't have Gaia II. What messed up stuff has Azrael done?
    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    I’ve heard some stuff but I don’t have the book either, so Sharp or Siriel will need to enlighten.

    But basically Azrael is a frickin’ zealot who’d throw anyone (innocent or otherwise) under a bus to do damage to the Shajads, or her perception of evil, or DIE BY MY SWORD, DOER OF FOUL DEEDS!!!

    And by “who’d throw anyone under a bus”, I mean she would literally do just that if Anima actually had buses, and has done equivalent or worse. Think a celestial Frank Castle but without the mercy.
    One doesn't need Gaia II to see it - it's actually in Gaia I. But yes, Azrael is some messed up crap (there are indications also that she used to stomp through the world, battling evils, which...as we know, in Anima means 'craptons of collateral' when the fights are on that level, but I guess it's okay as long as Dark beings are killed?).

    For starters, Azrael feels it's an awful crime to consort with Dark things. And by 'consort', I mean 'cooperate with them to get **** done, even for one second'. That's a huge no-no in her eyes, 'No Truce With The Shadow' style. She'd (almost) rather the world go down in flames than people actually cooperate -- there is no give, no room for anything but pure light to her. Everything else must be purified (ie, killed).

    And boy, does she go to a serious extent to make this point. Like, waaaaay into 'sick and twisted'.

    Let's take one of her greatest servants, Illumina. Now, Illumina was a maiden of light (spirit) who was her bestest warrior. And waaaaay back, she had a rival, unsurprisingly one of Noah's dark spirits, what goes by Araxiel. So Zemiel's avatar shows up, and the world is threatened. And Azrael (in a fit sanity, apparently) decides to ally with Noah (who is fine with this sort of thing, as long as there's a point), when both of them are World's Worst Enemies (presumably because of Azrael, because again, there's nothing in Noah's portfolio to say he would hate Azrael...it's probably more 'she might be my equal, so given I'm all about superiority, I need to win' or somesuch). They send their two best to deal with Zemiel's avatar with secret orders to kill the other warrior when the job is done (nice and honorable there, Azrael....).

    You can see where this is going.

    So they go through adventures getting to Zemiel's avatar (and have, at this point, developed a grudging respect for each other's abilities). Finally, Illumina and Araxiel face up against the avatar. In the middle of the fight, Araxiel inexplicably decides to take a hit for Illumina, allowing her to get the killshot on Zemiel's avatar (this is a double no-no for Araxiel, protecting someone who isn't his boss and allowing someone else to finish HIS job...Noah must have been pissed).

    Illumina goes to kill the critically injured Araxiel and finds, surprise surprise, she can't -- they've fallen in love.

    Anyway, healing and cuddles ensue, exchange of spiritual essence (it's as naughty as it sounds), only now come the consequences.

    Noah, being Noah, says 'Okay, you messed up, plus you're consorting with the enemy. Time to pay the price. I'm gonna put you in a horrible torture chamber from which you CANNOT escape, and it's nigh-impossible for Ilumina to work something out to rescue you. Congrats. You're in there forever...or until she can bust you out. Ah-hah!'

    Note the fine print. Noah has set up a situation that will TEST their love (it's an appalling situation, but Noah isn't a dude who is into half-measures...). Either it'll break, or at some point in the distant future, they'll come out of this even stronger. Maybe hating his guts, but what does Noah care as long as his servant and his chosen love get stronger. It doesn't say that, but it's set up in an interesting way that supports the interpretation. Heck, the write-up even says that it's possible that Noah doesn't REALLY want to punish Araxiel for falling in love.

    It says nothing of the sort of Azrael.

    So what does Azrael do?

    "Ilumina, you dared to consort with my enemy. So forevermore you'll hear every scream he makes. He can't hear you, no matter how hard you try, but you'll get to listen in on all of his pain. Forever."

    That's it.

    So....

    Noah actually sets up a situation where if they really do love each other, they might be able to break out. And their love will be stronger for that. Which is perfectly in keeping with his goals. 'Okay, if your love is really a good thing for both of you, Ilumina will continue to struggle until she manages to free you, and you'll continue to withstand suffering until she manages to free you, and you'll come out of it the stronger. You'll hate me, but that's fine as long as you're stronger. If your love isn't a good thing, well, she'll give up and you'll suffer as an example to the people who follow me. Not an example of 'why it's bad to defy Noah', but 'why it's bad to go off the path for something that doesn't measure up'. Maybe they'll learn something.'

    Win-win. I mean, from Noah's perspective. And at least half the time, sort of a win (and an escape) for the lovers.

    Azrael actively takes their love and turns it into a weapon against her own servant. Possibly making it into something that will twist and sour and turn to hate over the centuries of Ilumina having this screaming in her ears all of the time. It's vindictive, vicious, and actually pretty horribly against C'iel's ideals. 'Your love isn't a good thing. I'll use it to show you pain. Pain, until you come back to the fold, renouncing that love, because it's a baaaaad thing in your life. Bad thing. You'll come to see my perspective and love it and me again, and toss aside this foolishness.'

    Bleah. Plus, Azrael kind of shows here that on some level she doesn't really believe in/understand/care about love. Whereas Noah? Hmm, yeah, maybe.

    I'll note that this was my PLAYER'S perspective on things; until that point, I hadn't thought about it in this regard.

    My player had been struggling with the idea that it was flat-out impossible for them to ever, ever have any kind of cooperation with beings of the Dark (not 'evil', but of the Dark, specifically) because Azrael would have said no-no - that level of inflexibility was anathema to them, especially since yeah, they did feel that some balance was necessary in the world. This? Pushed them over the edge.

    Ilumina was pretty happy to find SOMEONE who listened to her side of the story, though. ^_^ It was also fun playing an NPC who is constantly beset by the sounds of their love's pain...and gripping onto her sanity with broken fingernail. And, in many ways, failing -- Ilumina has now done some pretty awful things to try to get Araxiel out, stuff that the 'light' wouldn't tolerate, that has harmed innocent people. Good job, Azrael...I don't think she's coming back to you, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-Zero MKA View Post
    Most definitely. The way she is now, Ardelyn isn't looking for vengeance -- oddly, given her personality -- but just looking for some way to move on. Solomon's done a great deal to help in that regard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-Zero MKA View Post
    Thanks, my man. She still has a ways to go, like reconciling with Tasha and getting over her racism, but it's been a fun ride so far. ^_^
    Fun stuff there, and I'm hoping we continue.

    It's hard to figure out the 'best possible' Beryl or Shajad for someone, because they ARE extreme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farealmer View Post
    That's understandable, feel free to ignore anything in this post that you don't wish to address. It's mostly just clarification on my end.
    Won't ignore...I've read everything.

    Suffice to say that I understand your perspective. I don't happen to agree with it, but I can see where it's coming from. ^_^
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 08-21-2018 at 07:18 AM.
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  14. #419
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    Also really not the best combo for a relationship with Solomon (but then I’ve been really slack on that end lately - must fix that tomorrow).

    One with Elan of Gabriel and the other attuned to Meseguis is not a good mix!
    Would be pretty funny, actually. Though difficult, and likely not to stand the test of time unless someone changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    Definitely a huge journey for her. It’s fascinating to read - she’s changed more than anyone but ina really organic, natural way. It’s seriously great stuff.
    I'll toss in a 'seconded' here. She's had some big changes, and they have all been very realistic to her character.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 08-21-2018 at 06:59 AM.
    Why are we here?

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    "Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate

  15. #420
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    Definitely a huge journey for her. It’s fascinating to read - she’s changed more than anyone but ina really organic, natural way. It’s seriously great stuff.
    Is their relationship still worryingly co-dependent?

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