Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[Sharpandpointies]

Just heard a story about how a teacher in NM thought it was a cool idea to stage impromptu duels with the students as a fun activity.

They used swords. They were in fact, real swords. Rapiers and Katanas. They did not wear protective equipment.

Only stopped when a katana slashed a girl's wrist and severed tendons

Crazy that you would ever think this was a reasonable school activity

This is incredibly dumb. Edit: no, this is beyond incredibly dumb, by a long shot. I cannot imagine the minds that thought this was a good idea, from the teacher to the students themselves (more the teacher than the students).

Worse, the teacher's first thought was clearly for themselves. They then tried to figure out a way to cover it up rather than calling 911 (it took them 20 minutes to decide to call 911 when that should have been the first step).

Then the school tried to cover it up (see: Assistant Vice-Principal's report).

WTF?

Like, the swords were probably wallhangers, not prop swords (Edit: alternately, one of them - the katana - had damage on the blade and that tore open the girl's arm...damage, I don't know, resulting from having completely unskilled people smacking them against each other and not having safety checks and such?). The problem is that wallhangers can have edges, and even if they're made of inferior steel and the edge is crappier than a paring knife, a sword is a lever and a shitty edge can still cut.

I've done live-blade 'sparring' with knives. It was done at slo-mo speeds (literally slo-mo - not 'casual', but moving at the speed where some people were making Six Million Dollar Man sounds) and was more about blade awareness and smooth motion than 'trying to win'. And it was reserved for the people with years of experience in a school that trained with knives as a matter of course. All under the eye of the teacher who would immediately stop any pair of people if he caught any hint of competitive behavior or speeding up in the slightest. And before we did this, we were encouraged to press the blade gently against our own wrists, windpipe, and closed eyelids (very...gently) as a reminder.

And this was with knives, not long-blades, which...have more control issues, more force behind them even moving slowly, longer edges that can create better draw, and so forth. And you don't parry with knives (despite some Hollywood bullshit) unless they're bowie-sized or such, so there's never any contact even on defense. Contact can lead to further loss of control or danger to the limb. Or adrenaline/fear and escalation.

Handing swords - not even knives, which would STILL be beyond the pale, but swords - to high-school students (sorry high-school students, but teenagers are generally more excitable due to hormone changes and such) with no training and having them fight it out competitively in front of their peers? Even when asking them to 'hold back' (notoriously hard to do in something competitive, especially when inexperienced)?

This is criminal, as is covering it up afterwards, and people should have been charged.

NOT the students, mind. They weren't thinking either, but the fault lies with the person responsible for them who encouraged this.

Gaaaah.

[Iron_Twister]

Just heard a story about how a teacher in NM thought it was a cool idea to stage impromptu duels with the students as a fun activity.

They used swords. They were in fact, real swords. Rapiers and Katanas. They did not wear protective equipment.

Only stopped when a katana slashed a girl's wrist and severed tendons

Crazy that you would ever think this was a reasonable school activity

This is incredibly dumb. Edit: no, this is beyond incredibly dumb, by a long shot. I cannot imagine the minds that thought this was a good idea, from the teacher to the students themselves (more the teacher than the students).

Worse, the teacher's first thought was clearly for themselves. They then tried to figure out a way to cover it up rather than calling 911 (it took them 20 minutes to decide to call 911 when that should have been the first step).

Then the school tried to cover it up (see: Assistant Vice-Principal's report).

WTF?

Like, the swords were probably wallhangers, not prop swords. The problem is that wallhangers can have edges, and even if they're made of inferior steel and the edge is crappier than a paring knife, a sword is a lever and a shitty edge can still cut.

I've done live-blade 'sparring' with knives. It was done at slo-mo speeds (literally slo-mo - not 'casual', but moving at the speed where some people were making Six Million Dollar Man sounds) and was more about blade awareness and smooth motion than 'trying to win'. And it was reserved for the people with years of experience in a school that trained with knives as a matter of course. All under the eye of the teacher who would immediately stop any pair of people if he caught any hint of competitive behavior or speeding up in the slightest. And before we did this, we were encouraged to press the blade gently against our own wrists, windpipe, and closed eyelids (very...gently) as a reminder.

And this was with knives, not long-blades, which...have more control issues, more force behind them even moving slowly, longer edges that can create better draw, and so forth. And you don't parry with knives (despite some Hollywood bullshit) unless they're bowie-sized or such, so there's never any contact even on defense. Contact can lead to further loss of control or danger to the limb. Or adrenaline/fear and escalation.

Handing swords - not even knives, which would STILL be beyond the pale, but swords - to high-school students (sorry high-school students, but teenagers are generally more excitable due to hormone changes and such) with no training and having them fight it out competitively in front of their peers? Even when asking them to 'hold back' (notoriously hard to do in something competitive, especially when inexperienced)?

This is criminal, as is covering it up afterwards, and people should have been charged.

NOT the students, mind. They weren't thinking either, but the fault lies with the person responsible for them who encouraged this.

Gaaaah.

...I really had to blink a few times and realized it's not a fever dream because wow, that was incredibly stupid of an idea yet no one seemed to notice until someone got hurt badly.

My university used to promote supervised fight clubs headed by my karate teacher (I mostly took it for the requirements of my major but I enjoyed my time there despite learning the basics only) that encouraged all kinds of martial arts as a way to learn and share experiences. Like a controlled environment to ensure safety with rules that are strict yet fair.

This sword fighting thingamajig ain't this, by county miles.

[Sharpandpointies]

...I really had to blink a few times and realized it's not a fever dream because wow, that was incredibly stupid of an idea yet no one seemed to notice until someone got hurt badly.

There is a video. They have a video in the news article. A video that includes a kid poking another kid with a blunted long lever that potentially has some kind of shitty point on it. I can't see if they were wearing eye protection, but given this stupidity I'm betting no. Certainly there is no FACE protection. There is no kind of protection at all (they're not even wearing fencing clothing).

Like...this is mind-blowing that the teacher thought this was a good idea, and their reaction when the injury occurred indicates they already knew there was a massive potential for severe liability somewhere in their head.

My university used to promote supervised fight clubs headed by my karate teacher (I mostly took it for the requirements of my major but I enjoyed my time there despite learning the basics only) that encouraged all kinds of martial arts as a way to learn and share experiences. Like a controlled environment to ensure safety with rules that are strict yet fair.

I mean, yeah. There, you have consenting adults who are in a setting with rules and presumably safety gear, using their hands while being watched by someone who is at least somewhat certified.

MMA is taught similarly. Boxing. Etc.

I did heavy-to-full-contact empty hands stuff in my previous school. I've done contact weapon sparring with very blunt wooden knives (wearing fencing masks and gloves) and only with experienced people, and contact long-weapon sparring with VERY safe training weapons...even then we wore protection: full headgear, throat protection, body-shoulder-padding, heavy leather apron for the groin, hard armor on the forearms (inside and outside), heavy gloves, etc.

And as you say....

This sword fighting thingamajig ain't this, by county miles.

Cripes, no.

This is madness, and as badly injured as that poor girl was, it could have been much, much worse.

This teacher. This school.

[Iron_Twister]

Right...It's straight up insane.

As soon as it became clear that N.S., who was 16 at the time, had been badly hurt, Mitchell screamed "I'm in trouble!" and ordered students to delete any videos they shot of the fights, the suit says.

Mitchell did not immediately call 911, and it took 20 minutes for the girl's grandfather, who is her guardian, to be notified, according to the lawsuit

Again, like no adult noticed this is was outright dangerous? This is backyard dumbass tomfoolery.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Kaiju #8: spoilers:

Mina starts fighting back against #9's manipulations while her Tiger, which can regenerate massive holes punched through, fights on the outside. #9 states that nobody has escaped it as things get weird in the nightmare world it's created. I'm assuming that Mina will escape and possibly learn something important about the monsters.

end of spoilers

[Postmania]

This is incredibly dumb. Edit: no, this is beyond incredibly dumb, by a long shot. I cannot imagine the minds that thought this was a good idea, from the teacher to the students themselves (more the teacher than the students).

Worse, the teacher's first thought was clearly for themselves. They then tried to figure out a way to cover it up rather than calling 911 (it took them 20 minutes to decide to call 911 when that should have been the first step).

Then the school tried to cover it up (see: Assistant Vice-Principal's report).

WTF?

Like, the swords were probably wallhangers, not prop swords (Edit: alternately, one of them - the katana - had damage on the blade and that tore open the girl's arm...damage, I don't know, resulting from having completely unskilled people smacking them against each other and not having safety checks and such?). The problem is that wallhangers can have edges, and even if they're made of inferior steel and the edge is crappier than a paring knife, a sword is a lever and a shitty edge can still cut.

I've done live-blade 'sparring' with knives. It was done at slo-mo speeds (literally slo-mo - not 'casual', but moving at the speed where some people were making Six Million Dollar Man sounds) and was more about blade awareness and smooth motion than 'trying to win'. And it was reserved for the people with years of experience in a school that trained with knives as a matter of course. All under the eye of the teacher who would immediately stop any pair of people if he caught any hint of competitive behavior or speeding up in the slightest. And before we did this, we were encouraged to press the blade gently against our own wrists, windpipe, and closed eyelids (very...gently) as a reminder.

And this was with knives, not long-blades, which...have more control issues, more force behind them even moving slowly, longer edges that can create better draw, and so forth. And you don't parry with knives (despite some Hollywood bullshit) unless they're bowie-sized or such, so there's never any contact even on defense. Contact can lead to further loss of control or danger to the limb. Or adrenaline/fear and escalation.

Handing swords - not even knives, which would STILL be beyond the pale, but swords - to high-school students (sorry high-school students, but teenagers are generally more excitable due to hormone changes and such) with no training and having them fight it out competitively in front of their peers? Even when asking them to 'hold back' (notoriously hard to do in something competitive, especially when inexperienced)?

This is criminal, as is covering it up afterwards, and people should have been charged.

NOT the students, mind. They weren't thinking either, but the fault lies with the person responsible for them who encouraged this.

Gaaaah.

It's just staggering. At least in the case of the students I assume part of what let them think it was okay was the teacher basically telling them "yeah these are fine" and them trusting it which I saw in another article was the case



Like...even sports fencing has protective equipment?*

I would think that if you spent a moment considering that even someone who has no experience outside of watching Gladiator or something would consider that, but I guess not. And obviously if you have any clue about swords at all beyond that, even just watching youtube videos...you should really know that this could be dangerous? Also not great implications for safety if this is a chemistry teacher? All of this is wrong

*Something I realized and brought up in another server I shared this in and in response someone with more experience in swording brought up a story they'd heard in which two actual professional fencers in full gear did a friendly spar but one of the masks had a defect, so when the other struck the mask it shattered/broke, allowing the point in and impaling the man in the eye, causing serious injury and death afterwards to the horror of the striker. Which just underscores: these are dangerous!

...I really had to blink a few times and realized it's not a fever dream because wow, that was incredibly stupid of an idea yet no one seemed to notice until someone got hurt badly.

My university used to promote supervised fight clubs headed by my karate teacher (I mostly took it for the requirements of my major but I enjoyed my time there despite learning the basics only) that encouraged all kinds of martial arts as a way to learn and share experiences. Like a controlled environment to ensure safety with rules that are strict yet fair.

This sword fighting thingamajig ain't this, by county miles.

For sure, I had that way back when I was still doing TKD. That was with an actual teacher, and with volunteers. And no weapons, although there was a separate weapon class but all of the above would apply and since they used gear for normal sparring I would assume they would do something like that if there was sparring in that class, wouldn't know since I wasn't in that one.

There is a video. They have a video in the news article. A video that includes a kid poking another kid with a blunted long lever that potentially has some kind of shitty point on it. I can't see if they were wearing eye protection, but given this stupidity I'm betting no. Certainly there is no FACE protection. There is no kind of protection at all (they're not even wearing fencing clothing).

Like...this is mind-blowing that the teacher thought this was a good idea, and their reaction when the injury occurred indicates they already knew there was a massive potential for severe liability somewhere in their head.

It's wild for so many reasons. I think I saw in another article too that this was to tie in to a lesson on metallurgy, which uh...well people definitely had some sort of lesson in that on that day

[The MunchKING]

That's what they MAKE Bamboo Katanas for. Training props that make a cool THWACK when you hit someone, but relatively low chance of injuring someone.

It's why the WWE likes them. You can beat someone with them until your stick breaks, but it won't do much to the guy except turn the skin all red.

I mean I still wouldn't jab them in someone's eye or throat, but other than THAT, low chance of injury.



Even the other kind of practice sword I've seen, which was like a solid wood katana-thing would have been better because at least those aren't sharp. They are pretty solid, and kind of heavy though so you could probably injure someone with a good hit.

This is just a WILD amount of stupidity all in one go.

[Hiromi]

Dune 2 is amazing, it might be the most visually impressive movie I've ever seen, it very well may be this generations Lord of the Rings if Denis Villeneuve can stick the landing with the next movie which will presumably be adapting Dune Messiah

[master of read]

Dune 2 is amazing, it might be the most visually impressive movie I've ever seen, it very well may be this generations Lord of the Rings if Denis Villeneuve can stick the landing with the next movie which will presumably be adapting Dune Messiah

that's good to hear. been hungry for this movie.

[bruceleegreyhulk]

[master of read]

this is what it looks like when max falls in love.

dont tell jae jae.

[Guy1]

Co-parenting the Anti-Christ.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Co-parenting the Anti-Christ.

More like Co-BFF-ing, but that's the general gist of it jah.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

I hope that teacher gets in serious trouble. What a disgrace.

[master of read]

i know i come from a hellish and underfunded high school. but even they wouldn't let us play with real swords. so yeah. dumbass teacher.