1. #22636
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkerbob View Post
    You know, it probably is to show off the legs, but part of me assumed it was something along the thought of "women have less upper body strength, so they need to kick to hit as hard as men punch" or something. But probably it's mostly just to show off the legs. In some cases maybe to show off athleticism if it's, like an acrobatic character. But of course, we are talking women with superhuman strength (even the "just human" superheroes, let's face it, they usually have some level of post-human physicality), so the whole "kick to compensate" logic shouldn't even apply.
    I get what you're saying. However...

    Hitting is more about whole body strength and technique than it is purely upper body strength. Also placement of the punch. And yes, men simply have more muscle mass even talking about whole body - assuming all things equal - than women do. However, that would mean a woman's kicks would be weaker than a man's kicks...and going with that idea, a man's kicks would be more powerful than a man's punches...so why aren't the men also kicking all the time to get more impact? They do, occasionally, in comics, but it's more like 'women, occasionally, use hand strikes in comics' than anything.

    And kicking isn't always the greatest idea. I can roll my way through three, four handstrikes - good, solid ones, not just flicky-flicky crap - in the time it takes me to kick and move into the next kick. Additionally, kicking will - obviously - for a moment put me on one leg. That's not a place one wants to often be in the middle of a fight. Even as a smaller guy fighting a big man in full-contact sparring, I learned pretty quickly that trying to rely on kicking (due to reach) was a losing game.

    There's a time and a place for kicks, and yeah, they CAN be more powerful than hand strikes, but.

    And then, as you say, we're talking about women who in-comic hit as hard as men do. Shiva, in her first fight against Batman, was noted as hitting as hard as the Sensei, or R'as, can't remember which. Orphan-Cass - in the same comic the artist shows her doing kick, kick, kick, panel after panel, casually snaps a very thick steel chain with a hand-strike. Etc.

    So, agreement, the kick to compensate isn't logical. It's not even tactically sound.

    And yet I still see it, over and over again.

    Bring back Damon Scott. ^_^
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  2. #22637
    Voice of the Authorities Cleric of Hell’s Brigade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estrecca View Post
    Nah, it is not a bandwidth saving measure. It is just about cutting out as much of the stuff they look down on as they can, which goes all the way back to the deletionist vs inclusionist "debate" of the late oughties.

    Wikipedia is still a resource worth using in moderation, perhaps even worth donating for those who feel inclined to do so, but I definitely recommend against attempting to contribute. The bureaucracy is kafkaesque and ever-growing, so even articles that satisfy every requirement in the moment in which they are created are at risk of being summarily deleted if something changes.

    It sucks, but there is probably nothing that can be done about it. It is just a bugbear that really offends me, so I needed to vent for a bit.
    Understandable. I’m a bit shocked to see them merging/deleting such pages. Seems anathema to the concept of Wikipedia.
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  3. #22638
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkerbob View Post
    I honestly can't think if I've ever fallen into the trope of "women kick, men punch" at any point. I guess I don't really give it much thought.

    I mostly just have everyone punch, swing weapons, or shoot lasers, unless their arms are pinned or they're drop-kicking someone. Then again, all my superhero stuff is in prose, if I was drawing it all, maybe I'd fall back on it out of visual flare? But then again-again, I don't really focus on martial arts.

    *checks old art*

    Yeah no, mostly punching or swinging weapons.
    Good on you for that!
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    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
    "Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate

  4. #22639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleric of Hell’s Brigade View Post
    Understandable. I’m a bit shocked to see them merging/deleting such pages. Seems anathema to the concept of Wikipedia.
    *shrugs*

    It is what it is.

    If you dare, take a look at the existing positions in regards to fancruft. Personally, I'd recommend against it. The rabbit hole goes deep and, at least in my case, it never gets any less irritating.

  5. #22640
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    I get what you're saying. However...

    Hitting is more about whole body strength and technique than it is purely upper body strength. Also placement of the punch. And yes, men simply have more muscle mass even talking about whole body - assuming all things equal - than women do. However, that would mean a woman's kicks would be weaker than a man's kicks...and going with that idea, a man's kicks would be more powerful than a man's punches...so why aren't the men also kicking all the time to get more impact? They do, occasionally, in comics, but it's more like 'women, occasionally, use hand strikes in comics' than anything.
    Yeah, the logic didn't really add up. I'm not sure where I got the idea, but I feel like I heard it somewhere as one of those hand-wavy excuses someone said without really thinking about it. I think you're right, it is a more visual thing. I can see how to a certain eye, men punching with rippling, mountainous biceps has a certain action aesthetic appeal over men kicking, and woman kicking with graceful, thunderous thighs has a certain action aesthetic appeal over women punching. Mileage varying, of course, but that seems to be a standard default.

    And kicking isn't always the greatest idea. I can roll my way through three, four handstrikes - good, solid ones, not just flicky-flicky crap - in the time it takes me to kick and move into the next kick. Additionally, kicking will - obviously - for a moment put me on one leg. That's not a place one wants to often be in the middle of a fight. Even as a smaller guy fighting a big man in full-contact sparring, I learned pretty quickly that trying to rely on kicking (due to reach) was a losing game.
    In the extremely few fights I've been in, which weren't really that serious, one of my favorite power moves was someone trying to kick me, and me just grabbing their leg and watching them fall over. Good times. :V

  6. #22641
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
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    Man, can't we all just make FanCraft instead?

    Hahaha, Minecraft joke, someone please ban my account, I need help.

    *runs off to mine more coal*

  7. #22642
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkerbob View Post
    *runs off to mine more coal*

  8. #22643
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkerbob View Post
    Yeah, the logic didn't really add up. I'm not sure where I got the idea, but I feel like I heard it somewhere as one of those hand-wavy excuses someone said without really thinking about it. I think you're right, it is a more visual thing. I can see how to a certain eye, men punching with rippling, mountainous biceps has a certain action aesthetic appeal over men kicking, and woman kicking with graceful, thunderous thighs has a certain action aesthetic appeal over women punching. Mileage varying, of course, but that seems to be a standard default.
    This, exactly.

    Men are drawn like they're boxing. Women...somewhat like they're doing ballet. <-- not ALL the time, but there is certainly a tendency.

    In the extremely few fights I've been in, which weren't really that serious, one of my favorite power moves was someone trying to kick me, and me just grabbing their leg and watching them fall over. Good times. :V
    Yeah, that's what can happen. Or getting punched in the face when one is standing on one leg. Or kicked in that leg. Or...

    Now, a REALLY skilled kicker sets them up well, chooses the time well, and does them really, really well...and myself, against that, I would probably eat foot. But it's not their goto over and over again (barring a TKD competition where they have rules about such things), because going to that well over and over does certainly make it predictabol.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 06-07-2021 at 10:47 AM.
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    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
    "Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate

  9. #22644
    E-Liter3K Scoped Headshot The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkerbob View Post
    In the extremely few fights I've been in, which weren't really that serious, one of my favorite power moves was someone trying to kick me, and me just grabbing their leg and watching them fall over. Good times. :V
    That's why the Japanese invented the Enzuigiri.
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  10. #22645
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estrecca View Post
    I've never been to 'Nam, but this gave me flashbacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    That's why the Japanese invented the Enzuigiri.
    Hell yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Now, a REALLY skilled kicker sets them up well, chooses the time well, and does them really, really well...and myself, against that, I would probably eat foot. But it's not their goto over and over again (barring a TKD competition where they have rules about such things), because going to that well over and over does certainly make it predictabol.
    I mean, if Street Fighter has taught me anything, it's that you just gotta find that one move and cheese it to victory! :V
    Last edited by Sharkerbob; 06-07-2021 at 08:03 AM.

  11. #22646
    Extraordinary Member Iron_Twister's Avatar
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    A pretty fun video I must say.

  12. #22647
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Men are drawn like they're boxing. Women...somewhat like they're doing ballet. <-- not ALL the time, but there is certainly a tendency.


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  13. #22648
    JUST DO IT?!?! Postmania's Avatar
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    The best part of getting older is finding more new ways to experience pain Not.
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  14. #22649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postmania View Post
    The best part of getting older is finding more new ways to experience pain Not.
    Ibuprofen is like air and water these days.

    But at least I haven’t yet reached the point where ‘fall’ becomes a noun rather than a verb, i.e. ‘he’s fallen’ becomes ‘he’s had a fall’.

  15. #22650
    She/Her Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    This, exactly.

    Men are drawn like they're boxing. Women...somewhat like they're doing ballet. <-- not ALL the time, but there is certainly a tendency.



    Yeah, that's what can happen. Or getting punched in the face when one is standing on one leg. Or kicked in that leg. Or...

    Now, a REALLY skilled kicker sets them up well, chooses the time well, and does them really, really well...and myself, against that, I would probably eat foot. But it's not their goto over and over again (barring a TKD competition where they have rules about such things), because going to that well over and over does certainly make it predictabol.
    I figured the best kind of kick would be the kind that's below center mass, unless you've already knocked your opponent for a loop preventing you know. Your leg getting grabbed.

    Then again, never really had to deal with someone skilled in a non-training, or "real" scenario... generally speaking most people forget what they're trying to do after they catch some knuckles to somewhere soft.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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