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  1. #15766
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I also figured Xykon would turn up. This is the more interesting of the two though.

    This attack is him flatly not having an answer to refute Durkon's offer with.

    Durkon gave him the best possible outcome, on a platter no less. Retaining their territories, a concerted effort to uplift Goblins out of the social-racial-ghetto they currently reside in within D&D, divine intervention to keep other gods off their backs and apparent amnesty for all the crimes he's committed.

    And he can't justify with any kind of rationale why he won't take it so he's throwing his toys out of the pram, attacking a peaceful diplomat and, a tragic way, kind of being the stereotype of the Goblin as it exists in D&D.

    Now, will Durkon's faith in the diplomatic process be shaken? I personally think not.
    Agreed that this was the more interesting option. Redcloak is perfectly capable of screwing things over without Xykon thank you very much.

    As sound as the offer is, it just goes against the plan he's been working towards since inheriting the red cloak. He's so close to finishing the plan and he's sacrificed so much for it. One single polite discussion wasn't going to change his mind fully (at least not without a really high Persuasion roll). Even if the offer is better than his current path it's going to take more time to fix. Also, the possibility of the entire world being destroyed and reset has always been a possibility in Redcloak's mind, so that being part of the equation probably didn't have much bearing on him.

    And yeah, Durkon isn't going to let this stop him. It's probably a disappointing outcome but not an unexpected one. He'll just have to get ready for another round of diplomacy. Probably in worse circumstances than this, but that's the job.

    I'm drawing parallels between this scene and when Vaarsuvius made their deal with the IFCC. Both Redcloak and Vaarsuvius were presented with options that had a high likelyhood of turning out really well for them (though I'm still a bit suspect about the scenario the IFCC presented to Vaarsuvius) but they both decided to go along with a much more hazardous option because they're both too stubborn about how they want to achieve their goal. So I really hope that they can have a discussion about this as well.

  2. #15767
    Voice of the Authorities Cleric of Hellís Brigade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Good for him; breaking out of the 'Sensei said...' mold is a first step into a wider experience.



    Having a memory of the original comic by Ben Dunn, I decided to skip it. ^_^
    Apparently itís pretty different from the comic so far from what I can tell.
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  3. #15768
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post
    I'm drawing parallels between this scene and when Vaarsuvius made their deal with the IFCC. Both Redcloak and Vaarsuvius were presented with options that had a high likelyhood of turning out really well for them (though I'm still a bit suspect about the scenario the IFCC presented to Vaarsuvius) but they both decided to go along with a much more hazardous option because they're both too stubborn about how they want to achieve their goal. So I really hope that they can have a discussion about this as well.
    I hadn't considered the thematic parallels with Vaarsuvius until you pointed them out, that is an interesting point.

    The key difference is that Vaarsuvius was motivated by ego, they could have taken the ignoble and safer option to save their family and their sacrifice would have been noble and everyone would have been saved but that wasn't consistent with their pursuit of ultimate power or how they think about problem solving. Vaarsuvius hated to feel like they weren't in control and the only other viable option presented to them required them surrender that control so they were always going to take the demonic pact.

    Meanwhile Redcloak... well, Redcloak's mental state is much trickier to figure out. While Vaarsuvius was primarily led by egotism, Redcloak has been consistently treated like garbage, belittled, mocked and dismissed by both Xykon and even his own god as well as bunch of others. He is a person who is trying to make himself significant and help his community on a divine level but is constantly being reminded that he's not worthy, that he's not good enough, that his position is only secure as long as Xykon says it is or as long as his god thinks he can deliver on his promises. He's fluent in deception because that's how he controls his primary ally and he tends to assume that others are either working a similar angle or are being worked.

    Durkon is perhaps the first person to approach him in good faith and treat him like someone worthy of respect in the whole series. The other Goblins look up to Redcloak but there's an element of self-loathing in there. Redcloak doesn't care about their approval, he wants the rest of the world to respect him and them. There's a kind of internalised prejudice against his own race because, while he's a leader of their community and has done more for them than anyone in history, he still doesn't feel like he has value until the gods themselves are brought low before him.

    There's stubbornness to it but Redcloak is kind of a case study of how systemic racism, in the case of D&D literally a game system, can mess a person up. He has the chance to more solidly protect his people from influence both terrestrial and divine and a chance to help save the world and he can't accept it.

    It's really good writing.
    Last edited by Nik Hasta; 08-04-2020 at 10:35 AM.
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  4. #15769
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    Anyone know how powerful Golden Age Superman was at his peak? Prior to showing up in the Silver Age era I mean.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Physically grabbing an released Black Hole to stop it is like throwing a sandwich at Galactus to stop him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Len Ikari145 View Post
    I stand by my belief of Toriyama seeing a certain match online and going "Oh Yeah?!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Every time you say the name of some kind of nonsense martial art, an angel gets its wings, and Val Armorr learns the martial art, retroactively founds it, then super karates the angel unconscious with it.
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  5. #15770
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Anyone know how powerful Golden Age Superman was at his peak? Prior to showing up in the Silver Age era I mean.
    So far as I know it's very inconsistent

  6. #15771
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    Due to the end of this preview, I have a feeling they're going to have Beerus attempt to use Hakai on Galaxia only to have it fail.
    Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence.
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  7. #15772
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dog View Post


    Due to the end of this preview, I have a feeling they're going to have Beerus attempt to use Hakai on Galaxia only to have it fail.
    By rights, someone with zero super speed and a level of destructive capacity that does not even surpass the Buu Saga has zero business fighting Beerus. But considering this is the same group that had Obi wan beat Kakashi, Toph beat Gaara, and Kirby beat Buu, I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow have her win based solely on the characters destroying pocket dimensions that will somehow equate to universe busting.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Physically grabbing an released Black Hole to stop it is like throwing a sandwich at Galactus to stop him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Len Ikari145 View Post
    I stand by my belief of Toriyama seeing a certain match online and going "Oh Yeah?!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Every time you say the name of some kind of nonsense martial art, an angel gets its wings, and Val Armorr learns the martial art, retroactively founds it, then super karates the angel unconscious with it.
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  8. #15773
    Postmania Champion Gryphon's Avatar
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    I found a potential opponent for bayonetta from warhammer. ephrael stern

  9. #15774
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  10. #15775

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    I've spent literal years dreading the coming of The New Mutants, predicting terrible things to happen to my favourite Marvel character.

    Now that we're less than a month away from its (hopefully) final release date and the (hopefully) last trailer was released, I take it all back. I'm all-in. Illyana swordfights a spirit bear the size of a house in Limbo with visuals that look like the cover of a heavy metal album, this can only be the greatest Marvel-related adaptation of all time.
    Last edited by Siriel; 08-04-2020 at 05:28 PM.

  11. #15776
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    I've spent literal years dreading the coming of The New Mutants, predicting terrible things to happen to my favourite Marvel character.

    Now that we're less than a month away from its (hopefully) final release date and the (hopefully) last trailer was released, I take it all back. I'm all-in. Illyana swordfights a spirit bear the size of a house in Limbo with visuals that look like the cover of a heavy metal album, this can only be the greatest Marvel-related adaptation of all time.
    As someone who isn't too familiar with Magick, what level of crazy can we expect?
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  12. #15777
    Voice of the Authorities Cleric of Hellís Brigade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    I've spent literal years dreading the coming of The New Mutants, predicting terrible things to happen to my favourite Marvel character.

    Now that we're less than a month away from its (hopefully) final release date and the (hopefully) last trailer was released, I take it all back. I'm all-in. Illyana swordfights a spirit bear the size of a house in Limbo with visuals that look like the cover of a heavy metal album, this can only be the greatest Marvel-related adaptation of all time.
    If New Mutants somehow, magically (ha!), managed to be a good movie the irony compared to its brother X-Men movies would be palpable.
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  13. #15778

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleric of Hellís Brigade View Post
    If New Mutants somehow, magically (ha!), managed to be a good movie the irony compared to its brother X-Men movies would be palpable.
    I'm just saying, this trailer (and the one from six months ago) sold it for me.

  14. #15779
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    That actually looks pretty damn good.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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  15. #15780
    Truth and Conviction Hazard's Avatar
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    Personally, I became willing to give the movie a chance from the moment Illyana kept her bangs.
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