Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[Farealmer]

Joel survived his impalement by way of Ellie going on a desperate quest for antibiotics, he didn't just sleep it off.

The dude was gut stabbed. That's not something antibiotics alone bounces you back from. I understand the game gave a good chunk of heal time. But the issue wasn't the length of recovery time it was the level of injury he survived when Ellie isn't a doctor of any kind.

[Farealmer]

spoilers:

but on the flip side, he had no reason to reason them since they just met and it's part of his character to be mistrustful of people he doesn't know. again, i can buy Joel dying. i don't buy him dying because he acted out of character.

end of spoilers

That was years back by then. After living for years in a town full of people he doesn't know. It's not out of the question a guy'd soften up after that.

[grampagen]

I'm not sure what the angle is here, conflating plot contrivances, ludonarrative dissonance, and implausible scenarios with poor character work.

Suppose we shall have to agree to disagree on our impressions before we go in increasingly pedantic circles.

[Len Ikari145]

[]spoik]but on the flip side, he had no reason to reason them since they just met and it's part of his character to be mistrustful of people he doesn't know. again, i can buy Joel dying. i don't buy him dying because he acted out of character. [/spoil]

I mean, this is the same man who ran over a seemingly benign dude asking for help with his truck as a precaution. Joel blindly trusting some folks with his name and harboring little to no suspicion of them is grossly out of character.

[Farealmer]

I'm not sure what the angle is here, conflating plot contrivances, ludonarrative dissonance, and implausible scenarios with poor character work.

Suppose we shall have to agree to disagree on our impressions before we go in increasingly pedantic circles.

The angle is that Joel was in a different place both literally and figuratively in 2 than he was in 1. And he got unlucky to the same extent that he was lucky when he smashed up the fireflies.

[master of read]

I mean, this is the same man who ran over a seemingly benign dude asking for help with his truck as a precaution. Joel blindly trusting some folks with his name and harboring little to no suspicion of them is grossly out of character.

that was part of the appeal of the first game. joel didn't trust anyone, save for a few people, and over the course of several months, he came to trust Ellie and eventually saw her as a surrogate daughter.

The angle is that Joel was in a different place both literally and figuratively in 2 than he was in 1. And he got unlucky to the same extent that he was lucky when he smashed up the fireflies.

that's the thing. joel wasn't in the game enough to show that he had changed that part of himself to the degree to be a major departure of his character. with "dad of war", we got enough time in the start of the game to see that kratos had tempered his rage and was no longer the murderous, vengeance seeking asshat he was in the past games. joel only got a few scenes and then he did something completely out of character from the last game and then died.

[Farealmer]

that's the thing. joel wasn't in the game enough to show that he had changed that part of himself to the degree to be a major departure of his character. with "dad of war", we got enough time in the start of the game to see that kratos had tempered his rage and was no longer the murderous, vengeance seeking asshat he was in the past games. joel only got a few scenes and then he did something completely out of character from the last game and then died.

Mr lone wolf killer just living in a town full of people and being trusted to go on patrols without fear he'll kill random survivors is pretty high. That a dude came at Ellie about kissing a girl and he was alive and well enough to make apology sandwiches for Ellie come morning was quite an endorsement about his current restraint.

[Nik Hasta]

I did read this Polygon piece about TLOU2 over the weekend and thought it raised some interesting points.

As I say, I never finished the first game and have no real interest in the sequel so I've no skin in the game with regards to its creative decisions but the above piece on it raises some interesting points about how it handles cycles of violence and the handling of its characters.

It's also spoiler free beyond say - broad thematic spoilers. I mean, you've been reading this thread (not even the spoiler tagged parts) you already know more than is revealed in the article.

[FistofIron]

I can finally get back to weight training tomorrow. I’m rather excited.

[The Chou Lives]

Amy Hennig did not write the first one since they say she was forced out of the company by Druckmann after Uncharted 3.

If the fact that Druckmann forced out the writer and director of the Legacy of Kain series (one of the best vampire franchises, in my opinion) is true, then I can't honestly hide any negative bias I'd have for him.

Oh if that’s true that guy is on my **** list. I am a huge LoK fan ( played every game) and wanted to see how the story would end. Since it dissolved, it’s not happening.

F you sir.

And yeah Loak is the best damn vampire series in video games in my opinion.

[master of read]

Mr lone wolf killer just living in a town full of people and being trusted to go on patrols without fear he'll kill random survivors is pretty high. That a dude came at Ellie about kissing a girl and he was alive and well enough to make apology sandwiches for Ellie come morning was quite an endorsement about his current restraint.

well, we don't spend enough time with Joel to know how much he has changed from the first game. he's there for a little bit and he's dead. so all we have to go by is the first game and based on that, he was OOC.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

well, we don't spend enough time with Joel to know how much he has changed from the first game. he's there for a little bit and he's dead. so all we have to go by is the first game and based on that, he was OOC.

I mean the guy you're talking to isn't even making coherent points, MoR. Best to just nod, smile, and move on. Spend that energy elsewhere.

[Farealmer]

well, we don't spend enough time with Joel to know how much he has changed from the first game. he's there for a little bit and he's dead. so all we have to go by is the first game and based on that, he was OOC.

We see him in flash backs as Ellie travels. Everything we see points to a kinder and gentler man than the hardass from the first game. Like when he takes Ellie to that museum with just the two of them. That was a huge risk letting her run around a place like that with no back up.

I mean the guy you're talking to isn't even making coherent points, MoR. Best to just nod, smile, and move on. Spend that energy elsewhere.

How are my points not coherent? It's one thing to disagree with them but nothing I've said is nonsense. Not like you calling Abby a mary sue in a series with Ellie of which the entire first game was build on how special she was both as an immune and as a person who Joel with all his baggage comes to see as a daughter(even the psycho cannibal leader liked her). I liked Ellie in the first game but if the sue bar has been lowered enough to include Abby it would definately catch Ellie.

[master of read]

I mean the guy you're talking to isn't even making coherent points, MoR. Best to just nod, smile, and move on. Spend that energy elsewhere.

well I've said what i needed to say. game's story sucks.

[Dark Soul # 7]