Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[Nik Hasta]

I mean even from his earliest inception, Charles was skeeving on a very teenage Jean Grey.

"Were I not confined to this chair," and so on.

I think the other issue is that the X-men really don't function well in a shared universe. As noted earlier in this very conversation, the selective bigotry of the 616 population is super weird.

[kahnno6]

I mean even from his earliest inception, Charles was skeeving on a very teenage Jean Grey.

"Were I not confined to this chair," and so on.

I think the other issue is that the X-men really don't function well in a shared universe. As noted earlier in this very conversation, the selective bigotry of the 616 population is super weird.

That's a very valid point regarding the shared universe issues.

I do wonder, however, if Charles presentation with Jean Grey is a symptom of the culture of that era vs an intentional depiction of him being a skeev?

[Dark Soul # 7]

Hmm... they let you see who is currently leading in each region.

With the exception of the Japan, every region currently has the Monster Trio, with either Zoro or Luffy in first place.

Japan has Zoro in first, Luffy in second and Law in third.

I'm impressed by how niche their character choices are as well. They really did their homework. You can vote for the Rug Bear from Thriller Bark or the members of the Whitebeard Pirates who were in like one panel at Marineford if you want.

Zoro or Luffy will definitely win. So I'm gonna vote up some of my favourite secondary characters.

Today I voted for Whitebeard.

[Nik Hasta]

That's a very valid point regarding the shared universe issues.

I do wonder, however, if Charles presentation with Jean Grey is a symptom of the culture of that era vs an intentional depiction of him being a skeev?

I've always felt it was the former, in the scene it's played more for pathos that Charles feels emasculated by his disability and we're meant to feel pity that he can't mack on an underage girl.

By today's standards it's a ton of yikes.

[Nik Hasta]

Zoro or Luffy will definitely win. So I'm gonna vote up some of my favourite secondary characters.

Today I voted for Whitebeard.

I voted for Nico Robin, she's been sidelined now but she had one of the best arcs in the series. Girl needs more respect on her name.

[kahnno6]

I've always felt it was the former, in the scene it's played more for pathos that Charles feels emasculated by his disability and we're meant to feel pity that he can't mack on an underage girl.

By today's standards it's a ton of yikes.

Very yikes. Very gross.

[bruceleegreyhulk]

[Sharpandpointies]

I mean even from his earliest inception, Charles was skeeving on a very teenage Jean Grey.

"Were I not confined to this chair," and so on.

I think the other issue is that the X-men really don't function well in a shared universe. As noted earlier in this very conversation, the selective bigotry of the 616 population is super weird.

Ugh, thank you for bringing that back to memory. Yeah, I'm now recalling him angsting over the fact that he can't tell her how he really feels about her.

:P

[Sharpandpointies]

Yeah, but then... Rogue. He wasn’t exactly great with her.

And he didn’t sort Logan’s memory.

Oh, and we found out that Mimic was actually in a coma, not dead, which means Xavier clearly never bothered checking.

And then we ‘discovered’ that he’d actually been a dick for years, after completely wiping everyone’s memories of the existence of Vulcan’s team of X-Men and not going back for them.

Valid points.

[Beadle]

Valid points.

#Cyclopswasright

Edit: Now THAT (Cyke) is a real example of someone going ‘From Boy Scout to Batshit’ (my head-canon name for his autobiography) over the course of a couple of years. That’s a real character assassination job.

[Sharpandpointies]

#Cyclopswasright

Cyclops doesn't exactly have any moral high ground... ^_^

[Dark Soul # 7]

Cyclops doesn't exactly have any moral high ground... ^_^

It's like Charles in all his dickish-ness wasn't exactly a good role model for Scott.

...I miss universes where these two were just pleasant characters.

[Nik Hasta]

#Cyclopswasright

Edit: Now THAT (Cyke) is a real example of someone going ‘From Boy Scout to Batshit’ (my head-canon name for his autobiography) over the course of a couple of years. That’s a real character assassination job.

I actually didn't mind that.

Cyclops has always been a mess of issues from his complex family history, being from an abusive adopted home, his tragic and confusing romantic history and his daddy issues manifesting in a desperate desire to live up to the expectations of some father figure (didn't really matter who) by being the leader and the responsible one all the time. Dude had a good heart but he was always a mess.

Him losing his mind, especially with the Phoenix in play and Xavier being not the man he thought he was kind of felt natural to me.

Problem with sliding timeline is that it won't stick and Cyke still had to be around or retconned or rewritten or whatever.

God, mainstream comics is inherently frustrating at times.

[Fervidor]

Sadly, basically every hero in Marvel has the public turn on them multiple times. It's kind of a thing that the Marvel public likes to hate on heroes (as opposed to the DC public, to the point where it's actually commented on, in-character, by both sides in the DC/Marvel crossover).

Mutants just have it worse.

It's like, I get that having people with superhuman powers around would realistically be problematic and kinda scary to a lot of normal people, especially when said superhumans sometimes cause massive property damage over what probably looks a bit like gang wars from an outside perspective. And I suppose it's an effective way of generating drama and conflict.

But I also think that focusing too much on that aspect is kinda depressing and takes away from the escapist power fantasy fun of superheroes. I know that the true measure of a hero is who his is in the dark and all that, but it's nice when saving the planet from unspeakable evil actually earns you some respect and admiration. It's gratifying, you know?

True, but it does make that murder no more than a temporary inconvenience, even before the advent of the Krakoa resurrection crew.

Oh, right, I heard about that. So, they're all basically immortal now? Or have the writers already found a way to turn that into something horrible?

But Hulk kind of earned that hatred. Spidey not so much.

Actually, Spiderman has always seemed a bit all over the place to me in that regard. Like, sometimes he really is widely mistrusted and disliked, while other times he seems genuinely beloved by everyone except Jameson. Is that just my impression?

Yeah, but then... Rogue. He wasn’t exactly great with her.

How so? All I know is that when she first joined, the entire team threatened to walk but Xavier stood up for her and convinced them to give her a chance.

I'm guessing you're referring to some later shenanigans I'm not aware of, which will probably disappoint me since that was a majorly nice thing for Xavier to do and also I've always rather liked Rogue.

I think the other issue is that the X-men really don't function well in a shared universe. As noted earlier in this very conversation, the selective bigotry of the 616 population is super weird.

Yeah, I was going to mention: X-Men always struck me as a concept that would work better in it's own setting.

From what I hear, they introduced a sentient primordial bacteria hive-mind that has been specifically influencing humanity to hate mutants because it feels threatened by them. And it says something that this actually makes a lot more sense to me than the original justification.

[Sharpandpointies]

It's like, I get that having people with superhuman powers around would realistically be problematic and kinda scary to a lot of normal people, especially when said superhumans sometimes cause massive property damage over what probably looks a bit like gang wars from an outside perspective. And I suppose it's an effective way of generating drama and conflict.

Oh, I'm totally cool with this. To a point. It's necessary.

I just sometimes roll my eyes at how the Marvel public gets all worked up against people who have very recently and openly saved the world, that kind of thing. ^_^

But I also think that focusing too much on that aspect is kinda depressing and takes away from the escapist power fantasy fun of superheroes. I know that the true measure of a hero is who his is in the dark and all that, but it's nice when saving the planet from unspeakable evil actually earns you some respect and admiration. It's gratifying, you know?

Very true.