Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[Sub-Zero MKA]

Thus, Disney takes over the fine Netflix tradition of MCU shows falling on their faces halfway through their season.

I mean, it's a slowburn that would have greatly benefited from being released all at once so we could binge from beginning to end, but it's still a good show IMO. Previous episode was pretty good if you don't mind watching previous events from an outsider's perspective.

Plus, Auntie Monica is finally getting her due, so I don't care what anybody says XD

[Beadle]

I actually liked Episode 4, to be honest.

As comics fans we’d all kinda worked out a lot of what might be happening, but I have no desire to be gatekeepery to the non-comics fans who needed that explanation, and while I also realise this was a departure from the first three episodes, I think it was a necessary one, at least for one episode.

Plus focusing more on other characters made for an interesting perspective shift.

I mean it’s not Legion. It was never going to be Legion. It’s Disney, FFS. But the development of a wider scope and adoption & spotlighting of other supporting characters from the MCU (no detailed spoilers as to whom) worked for me.

My wife knows nothing about comics (although has watched many of the MCU films... and enjoyed them... and promptly forgotten them), and generally avoids all of my nerdy TV shows, but she had her interest mildly piqued by the first couple of episodes, and then after this week’s episode just said “Oh, now it’s got interesting!”

[Nik Hasta]

I mean, to expand a smidge on my objections.

Wandavision episodes 1-3 were basically burying the lead and giving us very little momentum or indication of what was going on in text. As Beadle notes, those with extratextual knowledge would have more of an idea just because "it's Wanda, they are doing a house of M," but they really kind of dragged their feet on giving anyone motivation or a sense of agency.

And while that was slow going, it was... you know, fine? I wasn't particularly engaged but it felt cohesive if a bit lacking in direction.

Episode 4 then excavates all said buried leads, mostly through quite badly written expository dialogue and dispelled what little sense of mystique the series had.

It's like they wanted to do an intriguing sort of psychodrama with some mystery aspects but then felt they might alienate their audience too much if they committed and just quickly ran through everything that happened and explained pretty much all of it.

Which is just bizarre from a pacing standpoint.

I'm like... I'm not sure if I'm going to quit watching it but this felt like a big old misstep to me.

Also, as Beadle correctly notes, the Legion comparison isn't fair. Quite apart from the differences in complexity of writing and themes and all that, Legion episodes are an hour long. One episode of it is three of WV, structurally that's a very different game.

[Nik Hasta]

On a more positive tv note, I've been watching Peaky Blinders recently, just started the third season.

It's a very good show and is a hell of a lot of fun. Very violent though and doesn't pull it's punches with dark stuff but a very engaging and slickly put together show.

Season 1 is a bit scatty but it really pulls together and raises its game in season 2.

[Postmania]

It's like they wanted to do an intriguing sort of psychodrama with some mystery aspects but then felt they might alienate their audience too much if they committed and just quickly ran through everything that happened and explained pretty much all of it.

Which is just bizarre from a pacing standpoint.

I'm like... I'm not sure if I'm going to quit watching it but this felt like a big old misstep to me.

Also, as Beadle correctly notes, the Legion comparison isn't fair. Quite apart from the differences in complexity of writing and themes and all that, Legion episodes are an hour long. One episode of it is three of WV, structurally that's a very different game.

I agree with your points basically, but I enjoyed Eps 1 - 3 a bunch more I think. So Episode 4 was a bigger downturn for me.

I've read that it was probably focus grouped or something that the audience really didnt get what was going on, which after the episodes was what more casual watchers seemed to have said. Basically "Oh, I liked how they explained all the things I had questions on."

Which is kind of unfortunate because it feels like short servicing the overall thing. I guess I should have expected this from Disney though

I will say there are still some mysteries about the particulars of who's doing what, why/when this started, how things could turn out on a character basis, but this episode didn't really introduce new things or at least explain things in a very interesting way IMO

[master of read]

deeply considering dropping "black clover".

[Guy1]

[Len Ikari145]

deeply considering dropping "black clover".

What are your issues with it?

[master of read]

What are your issues with it?

for me it's just too predictable. like i was about to guess exactly how the story beats where gonna go. outside of captain yami, i don't particularly have any kind of attachment for anyone. maybe it's because i read too much manga or something but BC is just getting boring and predictable for me. not gonna drop it yet but not sure i will stick around after this arc.

[Guy1]

[Guy1]

[Guy1]

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I actually liked Episode 4, to be honest.

As comics fans we’d all kinda worked out a lot of what might be happening, but I have no desire to be gatekeepery to the non-comics fans who needed that explanation, and while I also realise this was a departure from the first three episodes, I think it was a necessary one, at least for one episode.

Plus focusing more on other characters made for an interesting perspective shift.

I mean it’s not Legion. It was never going to be Legion. It’s Disney, FFS. But the development of a wider scope and adoption & spotlighting of other supporting characters from the MCU (no detailed spoilers as to whom) worked for me.

My wife knows nothing about comics (although has watched many of the MCU films... and enjoyed them... and promptly forgotten them), and generally avoids all of my nerdy TV shows, but she had her interest mildly piqued by the first couple of episodes, and then after this week’s episode just said “Oh, now it’s got interesting!”

It's something I had to get used to early on in the MCU stuff, but they have to make it accessible to the uninitiated; and I think they do a respectable job balancing the hardcore fanservice with easing in newcomers.

[Jcogginsa]

I think you're slightly talking about a different thing. I don't think it's unbelievable or immersion breaking or tonally dissonant for Tomura to have gotten a bunch of new powers and so on, my issue is more that the base conflict between Deku and Tomura and their abilities wasn't really established or used to its fullest potential and adding these new powers doesn't add anything to their development. It's like a hat on a hat.

Like, this point here:



I feel this is a very unimaginative perspective in it. It would be very easy to write scenarios wherein Tomura remains a threat even with Deku being much stronger than him. He could use clever strategies, he could get to Deku in other ways, he could use that squad of interesting henchmen that he has to even things up.

Heck, the manga could explore the fact that while Deku could kill him if he hit him at full power, he doesn't want to murder him he wants to bring him to justice.

There's dramatic tension in that dynamic that has been completely thrown away in favour of Tomura and Deku both getting a bunch of new powers so they can have a big dramatic spectacle battle. As someone who has been reading manga for decades at this point, I am less interested in a big spectacle fight if it's not supported by interesting writing and character development.

I also disagree with your comparison to Aang. Aang's whole story was that he had to go and learn to master these abilities which were a massive part of the setting and culture he existed in. He had to find teachers and train with them therefore the pursuit of his powers fed into his relationship with the supporting cast; strengthening and changing his relationships with Katara and Zuko and introducing Toph into the story naturally. Aang's powers were intimately tied into the progression of both his story, the world's story and his relationships to the cast.

Deku's black whip power came out of nowhere and now, a low number of chapters later, he has effectively mastered it on his own largely offscreen. He gained and mastered float mid fight and had to do nothing to earn it or be taught how to use it. Danger sense as well, he just has that now. His powers are internally gained, require no real inter-character work to master and are completely unique to Deku. It doesn't tie him to the world, it doesn't impact his relationships to anyone except maybe Bakugou (whom I have a whole other set of issues with) and it just feels flat to me.

Like, I don't think MHA is bad or anything but it really irks me how much it's just... squandering a bunch of its potential in the pursuit of power scaling.

Also, Deku and Bakugou are largely not very well written for my money but that's more taste than anything.

That still leaves you with a fight that ends as soon as either character lands a single hit on the other. Which is very dificult to build a climax around.

One Piece: That's some good action beats. All present members of the worst generation can hurt Kaido and toss him around to a certain extent, but they're not doing any serious injuries so far. And Big Mom gets to really let loose and show her might. Our heroes can't really afford to only focus on Kaido with her around.

My favourite small moments were Kid's "It was scrap to begin with." comment and Law's frustrated teamwork with Zoro.

I've seen some compare Zoro cutting the Horn to Madara's mountain cut in terms of scale

I mean, to expand a smidge on my objections.

Wandavision episodes 1-3 were basically burying the lead and giving us very little momentum or indication of what was going on in text. As Beadle notes, those with extratextual knowledge would have more of an idea just because "it's Wanda, they are doing a house of M," but they really kind of dragged their feet on giving anyone motivation or a sense of agency.

And while that was slow going, it was... you know, fine? I wasn't particularly engaged but it felt cohesive if a bit lacking in direction.

Episode 4 then excavates all said buried leads, mostly through quite badly written expository dialogue and dispelled what little sense of mystique the series had.

It's like they wanted to do an intriguing sort of psychodrama with some mystery aspects but then felt they might alienate their audience too much if they committed and just quickly ran through everything that happened and explained pretty much all of it.

Which is just bizarre from a pacing standpoint.

I'm like... I'm not sure if I'm going to quit watching it but this felt like a big old misstep to me.

Also, as Beadle correctly notes, the Legion comparison isn't fair. Quite apart from the differences in complexity of writing and themes and all that, Legion episodes are an hour long. One episode of it is three of WV, structurally that's a very different game.

There's still plenty of mystery left in the show. Episode 4 answered the what, but not the how or why.

[bruceleegreyhulk]