Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[Sub-Zero MKA]

That's pretty much where I am. I'm not much of a Star Wars guy but TLJ was the most I'd been engaged by the franchise. I came out of seeing that film like "that was fun, I don't know where they are going to go from here but that intrigues me in a way that other Stars Wars films never have,"

Then I never bothered to watch Rise of Skywalker because it sounded like ass and everything I've heard about it seems to suggest that I made the right call.

For me, TLJ wasn't so much bad as it was forgettable. I literally do not remember watching it in theaters even though I know I did. For RoS, I only watched it because my mom was in town and wanted to see it with me. If not for her, I would have been perfectly content with skipping it. I wouldn't have missed anything.

[Guy1]

considering they have actively made batman seem like a total idiot, debuted the lamest looking batmoblie in history (a batmoblie that couldn't catch a raggedy broke down van), a psychopathic killer who they keep letting go, and a batwoman who feels entitled to being batwoman because she's poor and black and too stupid to get her arm checked out for WEEKS...........i feel that this show is on track to surpassing "arrow" in terms of pure, raw, 100%, restaurant quality fuckery.

"Rather despair inducing, isn't it?"

[Iron_Twister]

That's pretty much where I am. I'm not much of a Star Wars guy but TLJ was the most I'd been engaged by the franchise. I came out of seeing that film like "that was fun, I don't know where they are going to go from here but that intrigues me in a way that other Stars Wars films never have,"

Then I never bothered to watch Rise of Skywalker because it sounded like ass and everything I've heard about it seems to suggest that I made the right call.

Yeah, it's just not fun and even the visuals which always kinda helps makes a Star Wars film enjoyable to some extent wasn't doing it for me. The story really was that idiotic. Like it's bad that I understand it but I just don't feel the punch it was probably assuming it was giving. Hell, I'm not surprised it gave me Star Trek: Into Darkness vibes given whose behind Rise of Skywalker.

It's like the Soul Eater Excalibur expression when one has to explain it tbh.

For me, TLJ wasn't so much bad as it was forgettable. I literally do not remember watching it in theaters even though I know I did. For RoS, I only watched it because my mom was in town and wanted to see it with me. If not for her, I would have been perfectly content with skipping it. I wouldn't have missed anything.

To be fair, that's probably the best you can give that Trilogy. It's forgettable. Though Rise of Skywalker was definitely not the best. Maybe like very few things but otherwise....The Excalibur face again.

[Postmania]

I went in prepared with low expectations for ROTS and was still dumbstruck at it.

For such a bad film it didn't even commit to anything interesting either.

[The Dog]

The Sequel Trilogy is what happens when a company decides to make a trilogy, but not only doesn't have at the very least a vague outline of how the trilogy will go, but also brings in different writers/directors for each film to ensure that there isn't even a singular coherent vision for the movies.

[Guy1]

The Sequel Trilogy is what happens when a company decides to make a trilogy, but not only doesn't have at the very least a vague outline of how the trilogy will go, but also brings in different writers/directors for each film to ensure that there isn't even a singular coherent vision for the movies.

To be fair, they didn't exactly have any source material.

[Beadle]

To be fair, they didn't exactly have any source material.

So wait... I stopped reading pretty quickly, but her argument is that the movie was difficult because they didn’t have a comic or novel to work from?

Like pretty much every original (as opposed to adapted) screenplay ever?

Except those other screenplays don’t have 8 previous core movies, 2 spin-off movies a number of cartoon series and a whole abandoned former Extended Universe to help the writers to form their universe and principal characters for them and to provide dangling plot-threads to resolve.

Wow. That’s some bullshit excuse right there.

[Yun Lao]

To be fair, they didn't exactly have any source material.

I've never bought that excuse. So what if there was no source material? Lucas didn't have any when he made the original trilogy, just a lot of inspiration from old samurai films.

[Len Ikari145]

The Sequel Trilogy is what happens when a company decides to make a trilogy, but not only doesn't have at the very least a vague outline of how the trilogy will go, but also brings in different writers/directors for each film to ensure that there isn't even a singular coherent vision for the movies.

It still makes me wonder if the trilogy would've been better or worse if Abrams had been full-time director and writer for all three movies. What was his original direction/plan for the trilogy, anyway?

So wait... I stopped reading pretty quickly, but her argument is that the movie was difficult because they didn’t have a comic or novel to work from?

Like pretty much every original (as opposed to adapted) screenplay ever?

Except those other screenplays don’t have 8 previous core movies, 2 spin-off movies a number of cartoon series and a whole abandoned former Extended Universe to help the writers to form their universe and principal characters for them and to provide dangling plot-threads to resolve.

Wow. That’s some bullshit excuse right there.

And this is one of the reasons why people are so quick to blame Kathleen Kennedy for the sequels going south. And they did adapt some of the EU into their comics and even ROS, so that is indeed BS.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

That's pretty much where I am. I'm not much of a Star Wars guy but TLJ was the most I'd been engaged by the franchise. I came out of seeing that film like "that was fun, I don't know where they are going to go from here but that intrigues me in a way that other Stars Wars films never have,"

I'd... have to agree with you with you here. TLJ was interesting, mostly as a case study for what not to do.

Rian Johnson basically took to The Force Awakens with a hacksaw, to the point where the editor for TFA: (Mary Jo Markey, editor for Star Trek/Star Trek: Into Darkness), called him out for consciously and intentionally undoing the story that had been built up in the previous film. Whether or not he did is debatable, but considering his plan was to deconstruct Star Wars and go in a different direction he... certainly did something. Like turn previously competent characters into slapstick oafs (looking at you, Supreme Leader Snoke, and General Hux), or insert brand-new characters so incomprehensibly stupid their actions break the established, CANON lore so bad it'll never properly recover (Admiral Holdo, and the Hyperspace Craptastrophe). To say nothing of the overall massive flaws with the plot, character actions and motivations, the subversion of expectations to the point where the subversion itself just becomes a parody of itself...

I mean whether or not the film was enjoyable stops mattering when it's a really really good case study for how not to handle a franchise.

And let me be clear. I don't think JJ Abrams did any better than Rian on that front, I'd argue he did varying degrees of worse, especially when it comes to RoS... but TFA had at least glimmers of promise (dare I say, hope?) both in the direction it was heading, and the characters it was developing (except for Rey but that's its own issue); before Rian slammed his "Bludgeon of Subversion" into the franchise at lightspeed.



tl;dr TLJ is interestingly because it's such a bad movie from a writing standpoint. It's pretty to look at though, (looking at you, Admiral Holdo, and the Hyperspace Catastrophe).

Then I never bothered to watch Rise of Skywalker because it sounded like ass and everything I've heard about it seems to suggest that I made the right call.

*cough* only so much to be done when your protagonist is a Mary Sue, and you couldn't figure out a compelling enemy for her to fight so you just dredge up a guy who died in the early 80s and strap him to an electric chair.

For me, TLJ wasn't so much bad as it was forgettable. I literally do not remember watching it in theaters even though I know I did. For RoS, I only watched it because my mom was in town and wanted to see it with me. If not for her, I would have been perfectly content with skipping it. I wouldn't have missed anything.

You would have missed Palpatine saying "if you kill me I'll possess your body!" only for Rey to... kill him, and him not possess her body for... reasons?

Also you know, the ability to REVERSE DEATH.

[Iron_Twister]

Again, RoS is like a really flat diet coke version of Dark Empire (return of Palpatine who suddenly pulls various superweapons out of his ass with his faction being straight up cultists throwing out all the subtlety from before) as a premise that soon...Went to really really stupid lengths in its storytelling. Like the goddamn knife patterned after the wreckage of the Death Star as to pinpoint a certain location in the wreckage-What in the hell is going on? Who thought this up?

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Again, RoS is like a really flat diet coke version of Dark Empire (return of Palpatine who suddenly pulls various superweapons out of his ass with his faction being straight up cultists throwing out all the subtlety from before) as a premise that soon...Went to really really stupid lengths in its storytelling. Like the goddamn knife patterned after the wreckage of the Death Star as to pinpoint a certain location in the wreckage-What in the hell is going on? Who thought this up?

Not just a weird knife.

A weird knife given to an assassin that died because he fell through quicksand that also somehow managed to drop him into a cave (without the sand yanno, flowing into the BIG OL HOLE, ITSELF) 20 years or so before Rey and Co. found it that somehow had been designed specifically so that you had to stand on a very specific bit of wreckage of the Death Star to pinpoint the room they needed to find despite the wreckage being sat in a VERY turbulent sea that would've caused a massive amount of shift of 20 years and...

*sigh*

[Iron_Twister]

Not just a weird knife.

A weird knife given to an assassin that died because he fell through quicksand that also somehow managed to drop him into a cave (without the sand yanno, flowing into the BIG OL HOLE, ITSELF) 20 years or so before Rey and Co. found it that somehow had been designed specifically so that you had to stand on a very specific bit of wreckage of the Death Star to pinpoint the room they needed to find despite the wreckage being sat in a VERY turbulent sea that would've caused a massive amount of shift of 20 years and...

*sigh*

Hoo yes. Like god damn this story sets off the achievement to actually distract you from even enjoying this film...At all.

Again, just pure disappointment all over.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

RoS does have a few things going for it.

The Jedi all talking to Rey was a cool moment. The visuals of Force Lightning a fleet was also pretty cool.

The background look of the battle on the wrecked Death Star was really cool (even if the fight was a bit sluggish at times).


But it is severely hindered by JJ cramming two movies into one.


But, in all honesty, I’d watch it before TLJ which was just the slowest and worst space game of tag/keep away ever with a side order of Casino Shenanigans! that went absolutely nowhere.

[Len Ikari145]

RoS does have a few things going for it.

The Jedi all talking to Rey was a cool moment. The visuals of Force Lightning a fleet was also pretty cool.

The background look of the battle on the wrecked Death Star was really cool (even if the fight was a bit sluggish at times).


But it is severely hindered by JJ cramming two movies into one.


But, in all honesty, I’d watch it before TLJ which was just the slowest and worst space game of tag/keep away ever with a side order of Casino Shenanigans! that went absolutely nowhere.

I also liked the fact that Obi-Wan's classic line was actually true, Jedi are technically more powerful as Force Ghosts since they can still fully interact with the physical world and their connection with the Force is unrestrained.