Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[Sharpandpointies]

Not exactly that, but pretty much. It's just a distinction I'm finding more odd as time goes on I think because it's like the way to get better is just to find the "right" style in these movies. I get the thematic reasons but it's still lol

So, this is from three days ago, but I somehow missed it - any possibility you can describe how they tried this? Probably spoilered - I don't care about spoilers myself, but. ^_^

[Sharpandpointies]

Sanderson did a good job getting it back on track. Yeah, books 9 through 11 were borderline painful. 1000 pages where the main character is in under 30 of them and you spend 600 pages dealing with borer skirmishes and politics between people who should just be allies against the big bad in places that just don't matter.

I started reading the series around the time book 5 came out, and read each new book as it came. I do that to myself.

Jordan was really good at world-building and spectacular at complexities: combat is richly developed, magic (channeling) is details and rules-based, there are games within games between so many factions.

But. There are almost 2900 named characters in the series. And at least 200 are still plot-critical approaching the end of the series (others are around, just no longer plot-critical by then). That really go away from him. I think he loved Elayne and Gawyn as much as Rand and Mat, but we didn't need that much Elayne and Gawyn filler.

Sanderson was a good choice to pick it up and tie it together, for me: he's pretty good at dealing with complicated systems and such, having displayed the knack for that over several series.

I started it from the start, waiting for each successive book to come out. And yeah, Jordan was good at everything you describe. Some really, really fantastic stuff in the series - small wonder it was so popular.

But he did let things massively get away from him. He did love his characters too much.

One for the LotR fans perhaps

Not entirely incorrect, from a humor standpoint.

[Postmania]

So, this is from three days ago, but I somehow missed it - any possibility you can describe how they tried this? Probably spoilered - I don't care about spoilers myself, but. ^_^

Like you mentioned

spoilers:

The way that the protagonist (and the protagonist's mother) defeated Tony Leung was the power of a redirect-y sort of style (Bagua? Tai Chi? I don't know styles well enough). The part that made me blink a bit in theaters was that the training arc in question where Shang asks for instruction on how to beat Tony Leung was the instructor in question starting by correcting his stance. Namely, she takes his closed fists and changes them to open palms (before shifting how he stands and such). It was pretty groanworthy at least for me at that moment. Maybe I'm just overthinking a marvel movie lol, but maybe I've just seen that trope too many times at this point.

end of spoilers

[Sharkerbob]

I'm getting tired of the shared universe concept of comics becoming the dominating aspect of comic book movies and shows. Just had a massive debate over why not all DC live action media should be a part of the DCEU, and like usually in such debates, it went from me just wanting variety in these things, to starting to actively despise the DCEU more just because of the fanboys. Like I get people are married to the shared universe thing, but crap it feels like some fans are rabid over it. Even the comic books have a bunch of out of continuity stories every year, the occasional show and film shouldn't be a big deal.

Fanboyism really sucks the fun out of things.

To put it uncharitably, I think this is just another step in the desperation for perceived legitimacy, in the same vein as having live-action movies of comic book characters at all is. Marvel managed to do it and become this cultural phenomenon/lifestyle brand that continues to snowball into being this juggernaut branch of entertainment where it just sort of inevitably stays relevant by always having something new coming out, and encouraging people to watch everything to maintain high views. People want that for DC; it sometimes feels like some people care less about the movies themselves, than the idea of "DC as Phenomenon". Although some of that could also just be the marketing pushing that idea.

There's also just an inherent appeal to the Shared Universe, I guess, that is hard to really pin down, but just makes a world feel more viscerally "lived in", I guess, even when the parts don't all fit together, but I feel its something younger people mostly get into, when the novelty is still fresh. As you say, though, there are so many interpretations of the same characters throughout the decades, especially the iconic characters, that at some point, you realize continuity can be more speedbump than glue once the universe gets big enough. Continuity is important within a work (be it a title or show), but when you're bolting it to a bunch of other shows, or the show has run its course, and you want to break out of the mold, or work new things in that wouldn't fit, I mean, that just gets done inevitably anyway as a show goes longer. The MCU itself was retconning things as early as Phase Three.

Honestly, I think DC's got it right with treating everything as an Elseworlds, and worrying about continuity mainly under a "mini-series" consideration. Zack Snyder, as series director, had a throughline from Man of Steel, through BvS, through Justice League, but do the other movies really benefit from being beholden to it? I don't really think so.

Tangentially related, I think people are also just tickled by the idea of "Woah, holy ****, Character Played By Famous Actor A might meet Character Played By Famous Actor B! WOWZERS!" And that, like, becomes the whole focal point of the hype behind a movie. The new Spider-Man Homewhatever coming up, the only thing I hear from people is how much they're gunna squee when Tom Holland gets into the same frame as Andrew Garfield and Toby McGuire. Like, if the rest of the movie is total garbage, but they get to have that five minute scene of three Hollywood Spider-Men sitting down and talking, that's all that matters. I'm not saying it will be garbage, and I'm sure that meet up will be cool for people, but it seems a lot less "I'm so looking forward to a great movie" and more "I can't wait to post that five minute clip of three spider-mans to my YouTube channel!" Or something like that.

I feel it falls in line with that kind of stuff. Twenty years ago, yeah, I probably would have been just as hype for it, so who am I to judge, but these days, it all feels very vapid and tedious. But maybe its because I already have read enough Marvel Comics, I just don't get excited by this kind of stuff, quality movies or no.

Also, I like to not enjoy things other people enjoy, so I can look edgy and cool. :B

[Postmania]

I enjoyed the latest What If although it is of course way toned down compared to the original scenario in the comics :P

[Beadle]

I enjoyed the latest What If although it is of course way toned down compared to the original scenario in the comics :P

I completely forgot it was even on. Must watch tomorrow morning.

[Sharkerbob]

Oh man, I keep forgetting about What If?

They're doing a Zombie episode, right? I kinda want to check that out.

EDIT: Oh, lol, that's the newest episode! :V

I'll get to it eventually.

[Vakanai]

Fanboyism really sucks the fun out of things.

To put it uncharitably, I think this is just another step in the desperation for perceived legitimacy, in the same vein as having live-action movies of comic book characters at all is. Marvel managed to do it and become this cultural phenomenon/lifestyle brand that continues to snowball into being this juggernaut branch of entertainment where it just sort of inevitably stays relevant by always having something new coming out, and encouraging people to watch everything to maintain high views. People want that for DC; it sometimes feels like some people care less about the movies themselves, than the idea of "DC as Phenomenon". Although some of that could also just be the marketing pushing that idea.

There's also just an inherent appeal to the Shared Universe, I guess, that is hard to really pin down, but just makes a world feel more viscerally "lived in", I guess, even when the parts don't all fit together, but I feel its something younger people mostly get into, when the novelty is still fresh. As you say, though, there are so many interpretations of the same characters throughout the decades, especially the iconic characters, that at some point, you realize continuity can be more speedbump than glue once the universe gets big enough. Continuity is important within a work (be it a title or show), but when you're bolting it to a bunch of other shows, or the show has run its course, and you want to break out of the mold, or work new things in that wouldn't fit, I mean, that just gets done inevitably anyway as a show goes longer. The MCU itself was retconning things as early as Phase Three.

Honestly, I think DC's got it right with treating everything as an Elseworlds, and worrying about continuity mainly under a "mini-series" consideration. Zack Snyder, as series director, had a throughline from Man of Steel, through BvS, through Justice League, but do the other movies really benefit from being beholden to it? I don't really think so.

Tangentially related, I think people are also just tickled by the idea of "Woah, holy ****, Character Played By Famous Actor A might meet Character Played By Famous Actor B! WOWZERS!" And that, like, becomes the whole focal point of the hype behind a movie. The new Spider-Man Homewhatever coming up, the only thing I hear from people is how much they're gunna squee when Tom Holland gets into the same frame as Andrew Garfield and Toby McGuire. Like, if the rest of the movie is total garbage, but they get to have that five minute scene of three Hollywood Spider-Men sitting down and talking, that's all that matters. I'm not saying it will be garbage, and I'm sure that meet up will be cool for people, but it seems a lot less "I'm so looking forward to a great movie" and more "I can't wait to post that five minute clip of three spider-mans to my YouTube channel!" Or something like that.

I feel it falls in line with that kind of stuff. Twenty years ago, yeah, I probably would have been just as hype for it, so who am I to judge, but these days, it all feels very vapid and tedious. But maybe its because I already have read enough Marvel Comics, I just don't get excited by this kind of stuff, quality movies or no.

Also, I like to not enjoy things other people enjoy, so I can look edgy and cool. :B

Good points. I guess for me like you said it just seems vapid - like the whole point of the cinematic universe is for the big crossover team up movies, and those just don't interest me to the same extent. And trying to wrangle all the shows and all the movies into it instead of merely "most" because of team up love seems frustrating. Like I'm enjoying Stargirl, and I just started getting into Doom Patrol, but forcing those two together wouldn't improve either show.

[Sharpandpointies]

Like you mentioned

spoilers:

The way that the protagonist (and the protagonist's mother) defeated Tony Leung was the power of a redirect-y sort of style (Bagua? Tai Chi? I don't know styles well enough). The part that made me blink a bit in theaters was that the training arc in question where Shang asks for instruction on how to beat Tony Leung was the instructor in question starting by correcting his stance. Namely, she takes his closed fists and changes them to open palms (before shifting how he stands and such). It was pretty groanworthy at least for me at that moment. Maybe I'm just overthinking a marvel movie lol, but maybe I've just seen that trope too many times at this point.

end of spoilers

Yeah, that sounds agonizing.

[Guy1]

Crazy to think this is the same actress who played Emma in the LV Promised Neverland.

[Guy1]

[bruceleegreyhulk]

[Nik Hasta]

Okay, so... a new chapter of Berserk dropped?!

Is this the last one that was in process by Miura or something?

[Dark Soul # 7]

Okay, so... a new chapter of Berserk dropped?!

Is this the last one that was in process by Miura or something?

I do believe that's exactly the case.

Miura was working on it and his assistants finished it.

[Nik Hasta]

I do believe that's exactly the case.

Miura was working on it and his assistants finished it.

Man, while I'm glad to have more Berserk, the previous chapter was a pretty solid ending point. A moment of Guts potentially being at peace and maybe finally, maybe, letting go of his revenge and focusing on growth.

And now, oh god, oh ****, oh god, oh no