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  1. #24406
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    And none of us can say we “write a letter”.

    Most British people (with some notable exclusions, such as the West Country) would “write a lettuh” (we don’t pronounce the ‘r’ at the end). Americans would “ride a ledder” (because a ‘t’ followed by a vowel would be pronounced like a ‘d’).

    Of course IMing or e-mailing is much more efficient anyway.

  2. #24407
    Voice of the Authorities Cleric of Hell’s Brigade's Avatar
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    Of course, then you get into accents and that further distorts the whole pronunciation thing anyways.

    Armor and Armour start sounding real different depending on where you are, because Boston and Minnesota ain’t saying it the same, regardless of spelling it like ‘Armor’.
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  3. #24408
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    Yeah, I just assumed the US & Canadian ‘park’ and ‘block’ vowel sounds had a subtle difference that my British ears just couldn’t hear (which is certainly a thing that happens as we develop post-toddler age, whereas babies can recognise the subtleties in multiple different languages at the same time), but no, not in this case. The US-origin phonetics chart I was using at the time listed them as the same sound.

    In British English they’re not even close. So I had to modify the chart and add the UK ‘short o’ in order to train people in accents.
    Actually, I mean ‘I never heard that people think park and block sound the same’. The vowel sound is VERY different where I am.

    Edit - park is like car, block is like lock, and I just realized while typing this that people elsewhere might say lock and car the same as well, though I have NO idea how…. O_o

    Anyway, block and park are not the same vowel sounds up here.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 09-19-2021 at 04:42 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  4. #24409
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    But interesting stuff, Beadle - you should talk more about this!
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  5. #24410
    E-Liter3K Scoped Headshot The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Anyway, block and park are not the same vowel sounds up here.
    I've never heard anyone pronounce them the same down here either.
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  6. #24411
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    *watches another episode of Flash*

    *despairs at the bullshit super-science that’s even more pervasive in this season*

    The whole thing is based on the different forces and their… ugh… “Isotope energy”. And now we have “electromagnetic particles” gathering in a storm above Central City, and the forces are being described as “the isotopic forces”.

    I mean… STOP. USING. REAL. SCIENCE. TERMS. IF YOU. DON’T. KNOW. WHAT. THEY. MEAN.

    Just use fake science-y sounding words and we’ll all be happy.

    (And no, I will never not call this kind of crap out.)
    I mean, this is a universe where colors are tied to emotion as a literal energy source.

    Maybe the science is just different in the DCU.

  7. #24412
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Actually, I mean ‘I never heard that people think park and block sound the same’. The vowel sound is VERY different where I am.

    Edit - park is like car, block is like lock, and I just realized while typing this that people elsewhere might say lock and car the same as well, though I have NO idea how…. O_o

    Anyway, block and park are not the same vowel sounds up here.
    Tried saying Park and Block and, while there is a subtle difference, I pronunced the vowels very similar to each other. If I was saying "I'm going to the park right around the block." and did it casually, or quickly, without thinking, I'd pronounce those two words very similarly.

    American English is a bit lazy like that. Or maybe it's just the NE, NY NJ area that talks strangely.
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  8. #24413
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Tried saying Park and Block and, while there is a subtle difference, I pronunced the vowels very similar to each other. If I was saying "I'm going to the park right around the block." and did it casually, or quickly, without thinking, I'd pronounce those two words very similarly.

    American English is a bit lazy like that. Or maybe it's just the NE, NY NJ area that talks strangely.
    Interesting. How about the vowel sound in 'car'? Is it similar to 'park'? And the same with 'lock' and 'block'?
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  9. #24414
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Okay, so last night I was apparently in A Mood™. I'm going to apologize, myself, for getting cranky about the whole thing. Was totally unnecessary, and while I appreciate you taking it so well, I really don't think it should have been on you to apologize.

    Sorry, man.
    Don't be. Look, I've noticed for like the past year, year and a half-ish, online at least, that I've not been able to come across socially the way I want or intend. The frequency with which my attempts to be more lighthearted, silly, casual, less rough around the edges, winds up actually rubbing people the wrong way has been...high. Like disturbingly so. Like often enough that I've debated stopping and just lurking multiple times across two forums. So I'm sure it's me. You're cool Sharp.

  10. #24415
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Don't be. Look, I've noticed for like the past year, year and a half-ish, online at least, that I've not been able to come across socially the way I want or intend. The frequency with which my attempts to be more lighthearted, silly, casual, less rough around the edges, winds up actually rubbing people the wrong way has been...high. Like disturbingly so. Like often enough that I've debated stopping and just lurking multiple times across two forums. So I'm sure it's me. You're cool Sharp.
    Can't it be both? ^_^

    I mean, we can fight over who is at fault in a weird, Canadian-esque fashion (well, clichéd Canadian, where the reality is that we're just as much a bunch of asshats as anywhere else in the world, and likely worse than a lot of places). 'My bad!' 'No, my bad!' 'How dare you, sir, I demand responsibility!' ^_^ Would be good fun for everyone watching.

    And I do appreciate what you're saying, and yeah, social stuff has become a little more of a minefield for everyone, I think. We're all operating under pressure, so to speak.

    But I really do know that sometimes I take things the wrong way, and I also know that last night I was actually In A Mood™.

    So maybe that was just a big car crash for both of us. I for sure know that it was at least partly me (I mean, looking back I would argue it's likely all me, but you seem pretty convinced it's also on you, and I'm not gonna start ANOTHER argument, especially when it hinges on 'me knowing you better than you knowing you', which would be...ugh, no).

    Anyway, let's go with we're both cool. Because you are as well.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  11. #24416
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    And none of us can say we “write a letter”.

    Most British people (with some notable exclusions, such as the West Country) would “write a lettuh” (we don’t pronounce the ‘r’ at the end). Americans would “ride a ledder” (because a ‘t’ followed by a vowel would be pronounced like a ‘d’).

    Of course IMing or e-mailing is much more efficient anyway.
    I can safely say that while I and others around here have probably said "ledder" at some times, most of the time where I'm at we clearly pronounce the t in write. Not sure if that's part of the dialect or accent around here - there's a lot of other things we probably pronounce wrong, just your example is one where oddly enough most of the time the pronunciation in this are is pretty clear on the "T" sound.
    Mind, I'm from the south - we use y'all and are pretty casual with our speech in a lot of areas. But it's one of those things where you don't really think of how you say things, so it's hard to come up with examples.

    Think "dare"(dere? Dhere?) instead of "there" might be a common mispronunciation though...

  12. #24417
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Can't it be both? ^_^
    It can be both, true.

    I mean, we can fight over who is at fault in a weird, Canadian-esque fashion (well, clichéd Canadian, where the reality is that we're just as much a bunch of asshats as anywhere else in the world, and likely worse than a lot of places). 'My bad!' 'No, my bad!' 'How dare you, sir, I demand responsibility!' ^_^ Would be good fun for everyone watching.
    I would honestly probably apologize for unfairly taking fault from you one or two "my bad"s in. I'm one of those people who have trouble not saying sorry.
    (And yes, ass-hattery knows no national borders)

    And I do appreciate what you're saying, and yeah, social stuff has become a little more of a minefield for everyone, I think. We're all operating under pressure, so to speak.
    Maybe, until know I've never actually considered that everyone being under pressure these days could help account for some of how I seem to accidentally upset people more often online now...and I even said it's been over the past year to year and a half.
    God I feel stupid now. I'm sure covid isn't all of it, but timing alone suggests it might not have all been on me. I...have been more worried about that lately than I'd like to admit.

    But I really do know that sometimes I take things the wrong way, and I also know that last night I was actually In A Mood™.

    So maybe that was just a big car crash for both of us. I for sure know that it was at least partly me (I mean, looking back I would argue it's likely all me, but you seem pretty convinced it's also on you, and I'm not gonna start ANOTHER argument, especially when it hinges on 'me knowing you better than you knowing you', which would be...ugh, no).

    Anyway, let's go with we're both cool. Because you are as well.
    Fair enough, and may I suggest we both do like I did back in school and blame English and Math? Color, colour, mile, kilometer, words and numbers suck (that was a joke, although they were my worst subjects).

  13. #24418
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Interesting. How about the vowel sound in 'car'? Is it similar to 'park'? And the same with 'lock' and 'block'?
    Car is C - ar. Park is P - ark. Lock is Laa - ck, Block is Blaa - ck, long a sounds [like the sounds funny vampires make before they say they want to drink your blood]. Black is Bla - ck, with a short a sound.

    Furniture comes out sounding like Fern-a-ture when I say it.

    the weirdest thing for me was how, for many years, I was often asked 'Where do I come from?' Even people from my Geographical area thought I had a British accent.

    Edit: I just remembered that a Speech Therapist once told me I drop my R's. Which then makes Park sound even more like Pah-ck. Which is probably why some people used to think I was either from Boston nor England.
    Last edited by Tami; 09-19-2021 at 09:53 AM.
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  14. #24419
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Why Working-Class New Yorkers Drop Their “Rs”

    I didn't know that R dropping was such a big thing in linguistics.
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  15. #24420
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I can safely say that while I and others around here have probably said "ledder" at some times, most of the time where I'm at we clearly pronounce the t in write. Not sure if that's part of the dialect or accent around here - there's a lot of other things we probably pronounce wrong, just your example is one where oddly enough most of the time the pronunciation in this are is pretty clear on the "T" sound.
    Mind, I'm from the south - we use y'all and are pretty casual with our speech in a lot of areas. But it's one of those things where you don't really think of how you say things, so it's hard to come up with examples.

    Think "dare"(dere? Dhere?) instead of "there" might be a common mispronunciation though...
    Fair enough then. Although I think most North Americans would pronounce the ‘t’ in ‘write’ if they use the word in isolation, or if the sentence was broken up with pauses. It’s only if it’s followed immediately by a vowel sound in a continuous flow (hence the ‘a’ in my ‘writing a letter’ example), but I’m sure there are regional variations to that.

    Edit: Sometimes there’s not actually a fully-formed ‘d’ or ‘t’, but a kind of percussive absence of consonant, that still carries many of the hallmarks of the consonant that’s missing without clearly hitting the hard stop of the letter.
    Last edited by Beadle; 09-19-2021 at 11:39 AM.

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