Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[Sharpandpointies]

On consideration, though, there are a number of things that would better lend themselves to the screen than the Silmarillion, which I would rather see done.

1. Amber (first series only, plz);
2. The Foreigner series;
3. The Morgaine cycle;
4. The Chronicles of Elantra.

All of these are tighter works with established central characters. Would be a whole lot easier to adapt them, and they're easily as well-written/inventive as Tolkien's stuff.

[Sharpandpointies]

Attachment 118346

That about sums it up.

Niiiiiiiiice. ^_^

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

On consideration, though, there are a number of things that would better lend themselves to the screen than the Silmarillion, which I would rather see done.

1. Amber (first series only, plz);
2. The Foreigner series;
3. The Morgaine cycle;
4. The Chronicles of Elantra.

All of these are tighter works with established central characters. Would be a whole lot easier to adapt them, and they're easily as well-written/inventive as Tolkien's stuff.

Amusingly, I have read none of those.

Should I?

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Yeah.

Named characters? Check.

Rings of Power? Check.

Rough setting in place? Check.

It's a 'Lord of the Rings Series'.

Fanbase, btw, seems rather divided on this, just as they were with Jackson's stuff. I'm not part of said fanbase, but it's not hard to whip up reddit and such and take a look (also Tumblr).



I would kill for a GOOD Silmarillion adaptation (the actual Silmarillion, not the full book with all of its parts) comprising of:

1. Pilot: The creation of the world, told with much brevity, some parts with some good details, lots of F/X, all leading up to the waking of the Eldar.
2. Season One: Opening with the war against Melkor, then the Time of the Trees, some bits about the lives of the Eldar (have some drama there with Finwë's family), release of Melkor, an aside for 'meanwhile, back in Beleriand' to explain about Menegroth and Thingol, corruption of the Eldar, the dying of the light, the rebellion of the Noldor, the great journey of the Noldor (including the nightmare of Alqualondë and the Helcaraxë), ending with the rising of the sun and moon and the arrival of the Noldor in Beleriand.
3. Season Two: Fëanor getting killed. The Siege of Angband. Founding of Nargothrond and Gondolin. Various battles and drama between the various Elf-lords. The coming of Men. Etc. Ends with the Dagor Bragollach.
4. Season Three: Beren and Lúthien. The Battle of Unnumbered Tears. The horrible story of Húrin. Tuor's arrival in Gondolin.
5. Season Four: The destruction of Menegroth. Dior and the Second Kinslaying. The Fall of Gondolin. All ending in the story of Eärendil and the War of Wrath.

There ARE some characters who live all the way through this mess, and get involved with EVERYTHING. And as much as I hate to say it, it's the Sons of Fëanor who make the best characters for this. We have Maedhros and Maglor who make great 'sympathetic' protagonists, even if they part of some of the worst deeds of the First Age. And then we have Celegrom and Cúrufin as their opposites. Everyone else is in for one season, maybe two, or as a background character through the entire thing. Finrod makes for a great character through the first half of the entire series as well. We can easily add more for the Dwarves of Nogrod and Belegost, as well.

And that's four seasons, without padding. Want to stuff in other things, drill down into greater detail? We could manage five.

Pretty heavy stuff, mind, and not for 'casual' watching. But that's not to say it would be good only for Tolkien purists - done this way, there would be easily enough for people who knew nothing about Tolkien to follow everything from the start.

Edit: *mad frothing*

Honestly... you've pretty much covered everything I'd love to see adapted. Frankly, should just put you in charge of it.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

double post, blech.

[Nik Hasta]

Amusingly, I have read none of those.

Should I?

Chronicles of Amber is a pretty fun ride! Zelazny has a pretty accessible style for such high concept stuff, I would recommend.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Chronicles of Amber is a pretty fun ride! Zelazny has a pretty accessible style for such high concept stuff, I would recommend.

Oooh, didn't know it was Zelazny.

His Creatures of Light and Darkness was good stuff.

[Sharpandpointies]

Amusingly, I have read none of those.

Should I?

If you want to read big, glorious, and extremely level-headed/gritty dark fantasy, start with Erikson's 'Book of the Malazan Fallen'. <- I would have said this as well, but it would be agonizing to try to bring it to the screen, at 10 volumes of ~400 pages each.

But the other ones are great as well. Foreigner is sci-fi politics/sociology with a group of very engaging characters (not a whole lot of action, given the central character is a translator/representative) - it's organized in sets of three books, and I think is approaching 18 books in total. Amber is a short, five-book series that's pretty wild, written by a famous, old-school speculative fiction writer known for pushing boundaries (Amber is the closest thing he has to 'normal' fantasy, and isn't. He also has some short stories for Amber, specifically, and a second series - the second series isn't great, the author having stated that they had real problems writing it because they flat-out didn't like the central character). The Morgaine Cycle is a four-book (three short, one long) series of sci-fi masquerading as fantasy, written by the same wordsmith as the Foreigner series (CJ Cherryh, one of the most technically adept writers I've EVERY read).

The Chronicles of Elantra is a bit of a wild-card - it's 'urban' fantasy, but in a fantasy world. The series does bog down with interminable discussions regarding philosophy and the nature of reality later on (which I still found enjoyable, but I like that kind of thing), and some people have complained that the central character is a bit of a Mary Sue (she isn't - it's made perfectly clear that she screws up on a regular basis, she's lousy at a whole lot of things including parts of her job, she's not liked by all by any stretch of the imagination, she's far from the best fighter of the series - almost every single one of her friends is better in a fight than she is - etc, etc, it's just that due to bad luck she's been marked as 'special' and because of that special things tend to happen to her). Long, long series that's still going.

Honestly... you've pretty much covered everything I'd love to see adapted. Frankly, should just put you in charge of it.

I am honored! ^_^

[Sharpandpointies]

Chronicles of Amber is a pretty fun ride! Zelazny has a pretty accessible style for such high concept stuff, I would recommend.

His short stories, while bizarre, are also accessible in the writing and so forth. Zelazny short stories can be incredible.

Oooh, didn't know it was Zelazny.

His Creatures of Light and Darkness was good stuff.

Yeah, it's Roger Z. Certainly one of his more 'tame' creations, and yet still pretty wild.

Amusing fact - people reading might notice that when the main character can't figure out what to do next, he stops whatever he's doing, takes a break, and has a smoke to consider it. Well, Corwin of Amber is actually an author insert (somewhat, even if in-canon Roger Zelazny exists in that universe - never shows up in the stories, but can be found in 'The Visual Guide to Castle Amber). And Zelazny wrote the entire series organically - didn't have a plot outline (which...becomes obvious as one reads the series, as it becomes more and more detailed).

So whenever Roger couldn't figure out what to write next, he'd write the central character stopping to have a smoke. Then he'd go outside and have a smoke, himself, and think about what to write. ^_^

[Sharpandpointies]

I'm wrong - Zelazny approached his writing as experimental, often with a reason for choosing to write in a specific way (Creatures was never meant to be published - originally, it was an experiment in 'how many kinds of poetry and prose can I stuff into a single work?'). As I recall it was his Dilvish The Damned/The Changing Land books that were explicitly written as his attempt at 'standard, of that time' fantasy.

Of course they weren't.

[Sharpandpointies]

Gaaah. Apologies for the barrage.

ADHD Hyperfixation Infodump Powers, GO!

[Sharpandpointies]

Also, nobody wants me directing Silmarillion. Would be fine until I hit The Lay Of Leithian, then the rest of the season would be Beren and Finrod trying to out-sacrifice each other and Lúthian having to save them.

Done now. *slinks away*

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

If you want to read big, glorious, and extremely level-headed/gritty dark fantasy, start with Erikson's 'Book of the Malazan Fallen'. <- I would have said this as well, but it would be agonizing to try to bring it to the screen, at 10 volumes of ~400 pages each.

I've started Gardens of the Moon, but for a variety of reasons, I've not been able to finish. It was pretty good though, so it's definitely something I'm into.

But the other ones are great as well. Foreigner is sci-fi politics/sociology with a group of very engaging characters (not a whole lot of action, given the central character is a translator/representative) - it's organized in sets of three books, and I think is approaching 18 books in total.

Sounds interesting, in a "won't bore me to sleep" kinda way. Added to the queue.

Amber is a short, five-book series that's pretty wild, written by a famous, old-school speculative fiction writer known for pushing boundaries (Amber is the closest thing he has to 'normal' fantasy, and isn't.

This sounds wonderful as I've... sorta gotten tired of bog standard fantasy, if it's weird, I'm into it.

He also has some short stories for Amber, specifically, and a second series - the second series isn't great, the author having stated that they had real problems writing it because they flat-out didn't like the central character).

Will probably hold off on these, and see how the Amber series proper hits. If it's good though, can't say I'll avoid these.

The Morgaine Cycle is a four-book (three short, one long) series of sci-fi masquerading as fantasy, written by the same wordsmith as the Foreigner series (CJ Cherryh, one of the most technically adept writers I've EVERY read).

If you recommend Foreginer, and this is written by the same author... queue it goes.

The Chronicles of Elantra is a bit of a wild-card - it's 'urban' fantasy, but in a fantasy world. The series does bog down with interminable discussions regarding philosophy and the nature of reality later on (which I still found enjoyable, but I like that kind of thing), and some people have complained that the central character is a bit of a Mary Sue (she isn't - it's made perfectly clear that she screws up on a regular basis, she's lousy at a whole lot of things including parts of her job, she's not liked by all by any stretch of the imagination, she's far from the best fighter of the series - almost every single one of her friends is better in a fight than she is - etc, etc, it's just that due to bad luck she's been marked as 'special' and because of that special things tend to happen to her). Long, long series that's still going.

I'll admit this one has me the most interested, but wary.

I've hit a point where Urban Fantasy is really hard to enjoy, because... well it's usually pretty terrible. (Shadowrun being an exception for sure, imo)... so hearing that this is good certainly intrigues me. But... I'm also at a point where if a story isn't coherent and like, well put together I get annoyed and stop bothering with whatever it is (my issue with Marvel post Infinity War, and even before in varying degrees) unless it's just so enjoyable in every other aspect that I can turn my brain off to enjoy it.

So... I'll give this one a go, but it's got a very serious uphill climb for me from the outset. I suppose the others do as well to one degree or another, but this one is 'special'. Could even say lucky.

I am honored! ^_^

you've got the knowledge and the passion for the series enough to make it enjoyable without being bloated and 100% accurate. just makes sense imo.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

His short stories, while bizarre, are also accessible in the writing and so forth. Zelazny short stories can be incredible.

Yeah, it's Roger Z. Certainly one of his more 'tame' creations, and yet still pretty wild.

Amusing fact - people reading might notice that when the main character can't figure out what to do next, he stops whatever he's doing, takes a break, and has a smoke to consider it. Well, Corwin of Amber is actually an author insert (somewhat, even if in-canon Roger Zelazny exists in that universe - never shows up in the stories, but can be found in 'The Visual Guide to Castle Amber). And Zelazny wrote the entire series organically - didn't have a plot outline (which...becomes obvious as one reads the series, as it becomes more and more detailed).

So whenever Roger couldn't figure out what to write next, he'd write the central character stopping to have a smoke. Then he'd go outside and have a smoke, himself, and think about what to write. ^_^

I'm wrong - Zelazny approached his writing as experimental, often with a reason for choosing to write in a specific way (Creatures was never meant to be published - originally, it was an experiment in 'how many kinds of poetry and prose can I stuff into a single work?'). As I recall it was his Dilvish The Damned/The Changing Land books that were explicitly written as his attempt at 'standard, of that time' fantasy.

Of course they weren't.

See, that's really cool.

And honestly might be a much needed breath of fresh air. I liked Creatures because of how odd and almost... mythological it was in its writing. Almost like you were reading a holy book, and not a fantasy about some dudes who muck about with the time stream to get into fist fights. But it was a holy book that didn't immediately offend all of my sensibilities.

Gaaah. Apologies for the barrage.

ADHD Hyperfixation Infodump Powers, GO!

Wouldn't prod if I wasn't hoping for an info dump

Also, nobody wants me directing Silmarillion. Would be fine until I hit The Lay Of Leithian, then the rest of the season would be Beren and Finrod trying to out-sacrifice each other and Lúthian having to save them.

Done now. *slinks away*

... and yet. This would be hilarious, and lore appropriate. Like, Imagine Feanor and sons, as written by Sharp.

[Sharpandpointies]

I've started Gardens of the Moon, but for a variety of reasons, I've not been able to finish. It was pretty good though, so it's definitely something I'm into.

Good stuff. Gardens, I will say, is the LEAST polished of his books, which says a lot.

Sounds interesting, in a "won't bore me to sleep" kinda way. Added to the queue.

There's a lot in that series. First book is weird, as a chunk of it takes place with different characters in the past, just to set the stage.

This sounds wonderful as I've... sorta gotten tired of bog standard fantasy, if it's weird, I'm into it.

It's spectacularly good, and has some really interesting characters and ideas.

Will probably hold off on these, and see how the Amber series proper hits. If it's good though, can't say I'll avoid these.

Might as well buy the series at that point. The short stories can be found in a couple of his short story books. I can direct you in the proper direction for those.

If you recommend Foreginer, and this is written by the same author... queue it goes.

It's often sold in one book as the Morgaine Cycle, which covers the first three books. Years and years later she wrote Exile's Gate, the 'final' book, under a different publisher. That one is harder to find.

I'll admit this one has me the most interested, but wary.

I've hit a point where Urban Fantasy is really hard to enjoy, because... well it's usually pretty terrible. (Shadowrun being an exception for sure, imo)... so hearing that this is good certainly intrigues me. But... I'm also at a point where if a story isn't coherent and like, well put together I get annoyed and stop bothering with whatever it is (my issue with Marvel post Infinity War, and even before in varying degrees) unless it's just so enjoyable in every other aspect that I can turn my brain off to enjoy it.

So... I'll give this one a go, but it's got a very serious uphill climb for me from the outset. I suppose the others do as well to one degree or another, but this one is 'special'. Could even say lucky.

By urban fantasy, I mean more 'it's in a city, it's fantasy'. But the city is in a fantasy world, not this one, and the central characters are part of the city guard.

Yes, it has some cheesiness, and dragons, and 'elves' (the Barrani), but the dragons and elves are presented VERY differently than in other stuff (I am so unbelievably sick of dragons and elves, and yet this series manages to make them fresh). There's politics, crime, big world-threatening stuff, occasional unfortunate cuteness, but it's mostly really good. Very character-driven, which I like.

you've got the knowledge and the passion for the series enough to make it enjoyable without being bloated and 100% accurate. just makes sense imo.

Sadly, I have neither the experience, the money, nor the contacts to pull it off. ^_^