Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Well, to defend some of the people laughing. Even Will was laughing, until he looked over at Jada. I don't think everyone fully understood the joke, until Will did what he did.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I mean that doesn't make it okay to laugh at it. Just that the joke (that wasn't a joke, the more I think about it); wasn't understood by some people.

[Sharpandpointies]

Well, to defend some of the people laughing. Even Will was laughing, until he looked over at Jada. I don't think everyone fully understood the joke, until Will did what he did.

Absolutely. Ugly factor of living in an ableist society. Nobody CONSIDERS it, because it's normalized.

Some of those people probably didn't know about the alopecia. Fair enough on them.

Some of them for sure did. And some of those, like Will, were probably caught up in the 'laughing at various jokes' and just kept it going...but the gears turned in Will's head, and I'm happy about that.

I'm hopeful it makes some of those people think.

I mean that doesn't make it okay to laugh at it. Just that the joke (that wasn't a joke, the more I think about it); wasn't understood by some people.

Absolutely. To all of that.

[Postmania]

In terms of conversation I don’t think most people would have been able to both react as quickly and come up with a good way to talk about things on stage. That’s a Paragon interrupt that not everyone has the points to muster I think

[Sharpandpointies]

In terms of conversation I don’t think most people would have been able to both react as quickly and come up with a good way to talk about things on stage. That’s a Paragon interrupt that not everyone has the points to muster I think

I understood.jpg

*limit dance*

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I mean the more I think about it the more I think it was kinda a Paragon interrupt?

The yelling afterwards was Renegade, but...

Fastest way to highlight the issue, when a chunk of people clearly didn't understand what was going on. Then, when he had the words he clarified when given the means to broadcast his message.

I still don't like that the slap happened but... I don't think I can say he shouldn't have.

[Postmania]

Yeah Im not as hard on this bc of how it really looks like will is pulling the blow there. It feels like his body is almost working against his arm iirc from the footage.

If he’d sent it full with a slap that out Chris on the floor or a full punch I wouldn’t think that was justified in most ways that mattered.

Mind, it still would have stung

[Sharpandpointies]

I mean the more I think about it the more I think it was kinda a Paragon interrupt?

The yelling afterwards was Renegade, but...

Fastest way to highlight the issue, when a chunk of people clearly didn't understand what was going on. Then, when he had the words he clarified when given the means to broadcast his message.

I still don't like that the slap happened but... I don't think I can say he shouldn't have.

Interesting breakdown, and it's actually kind of where I am. The slap wasn't the best possible choice of things, but it for sure, for me, wasn't the worst. Slaps, although still violence, used in a social situation carry...I don't know, different connotations, especially when they come in response to something offensive someone said. Are they acceptable? No, but they have an awfully different feeling from 'Pre-fight shove', 'grab the guy and muscle him around', or 'punch in the face'. <- Again, this is not at all saying 'slaps are okay' or even 'all slaps mean the same thing' (they sure don't). Slaps still not something I would say is a go-to in any situation.

But I find myself understanding Will Smith and saying 'It wasn't the best reaction but I'm still...sort-of okay with it, situationally.'

Granted, had Rock decided to press charges, that would be his right.

Yeah Im not as hard on this bc of how it really looks like will is pulling the blow there. It feels like his body is almost working against his arm iirc from the footage.

If he’d sent it full with a slap that out Chris on the floor or a full punch I wouldn’t think that was justified in most ways that mattered.

Mind, it still would have stung

Agreed.

Would have stung. Would have been literally shocking. And slapping someone in the face carries a social impact that is different than 'shoving' or 'punching' them, I feel. Shove or punch, in response to an offensive comment, is 'You have said something that enraged me and I am attacking you, fight me now.' A slap carries more of a connotation of 'how dare you say that offensive thing', so I imagine the hit comes off feeling quite differently on a gut level (it can also carry different connotations in different situations, I'm just talking about 'in response to something offensive said').

Still an attack, of course.

And yeah, Will is a big guy who has also trained how to hit something in ways that are realistic. He could have slapped a whole lot harder. He could have led with a fist. This slap is borderline...I don't know, 'acceptable' seems the wrong word, but I can't think of a different one. Anything more would have been very different.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Interesting breakdown, and it's actually kind of where I am. The slap wasn't the best possible choice of things, but it for sure, for me, wasn't the worst. Slaps, although still violence, used in a social situation carry...I don't know, different connotations, especially when they come in response to something offensive someone said. Are they acceptable? No, but they have an awfully different feeling from 'Pre-fight shove', 'grab the guy and muscle him around', or 'punch in the face'. <- Again, this is not at all saying 'slaps are okay' or even 'all slaps mean the same thing' (they sure don't). Slaps still not something I would say is a go-to in any situation.

But I find myself understanding Will Smith and saying 'It wasn't the best reaction but I'm still...sort-of okay with it, situationally.'

So, initially I was very much in the camp of 'well that was terrible, how dare Will Smith slap someone over a joke like that'...

But, like.

I took a minute, after you responded to me to actually think about it; and realized that there are scenarios I could think of where a slap was an acceptable response, and there ultimately was no justifiable reason why this one fell outside of that category.

More than that, there no such thing as 'freedom from consequence'.

And as you noted, in the heat of the moment, where there was a lack of understanding about the nature of the joke (it really wasn't one), words would likely fail to convey the gravity sufficiently; and as Posts notes, where Will had enough presence of mind to note decapitate the man...

Like.

I can't stand by what I initially went into this conversation with; because my distaste for physical displays of violence aside... Will wasn't particularly in the wrong. And had it been a comment about someone's identity, or something else more overtly bigoted I wouldn't have even thought about it.

Which is a failure on my part.

Granted, had Rock decided to press charges, that would be his right.

He handled it well, all things considered. Acknowledging the slap, making light of it, and then moving on.

[Sharpandpointies]

So, initially I was very much in the camp of 'well that was terrible, how dare Will Smith slap someone over a joke like that'...

But, like.

I took a minute, after you responded to me to actually think about it; and realized that there are scenarios I could think of where a slap was an acceptable response, and there ultimately was no justifiable reason why this one fell outside of that category.

More than that, there no such thing as 'freedom from consequence'.

And as you noted, in the heat of the moment, where there was a lack of understanding about the nature of the joke (it really wasn't one), words would likely fail to convey the gravity sufficiently; and as Posts notes, where Will had enough presence of mind to note decapitate the man...

Like.

I can't stand by what I initially went into this conversation with; because my distaste for physical displays of violence aside... Will wasn't particularly in the wrong. And had it been a comment about someone's identity, or something else more overtly bigoted I wouldn't have even thought about it.

Which is a failure on my part.

The situation is a complex one (would have been far less-so without the slap, pretty cut-and-dried in fact), and your various analyses of it through this conversation have helped me think through/clarify some of my own immediate opinions and perspectives. I feel the talk has been a good one on both sides. ^_^ And other people joining in with some good stuff as well!

And having a distaste for physical violence, man...my opinion would be that's a good thing. ^_^ Might come as a surprise given some of my hobbies, but.

We live in this society, and much as systemic racism and systemic sexism and so forth have given us blind spots, so has systemic ableism. Ableism has been largely overlooked by society in the past (when did we actually start hearing the word, rather than just specific 'accessibility' discussions?), but it slowly is coming to light more and more, and I'm pretty happy about that.

He handled it well, all things considered. Acknowledging the slap, making light of it, and then moving on.

Yeah, I think so. Curious to see what he makes of his own comments that precipitated the whole thing.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

As an aside, just stumbled upon this NPR Article.

It seems like this isn't the first time Chris has joked about Jada, specifically, at the Oscars.

[Gryphon]

[Dark Soul # 7]

[Dark Soul # 7]

Fun episode.

I really liked the fight animation and coreography. I feel like they also got the personalities of the two ladies down pat.

Fun start to the season.

[Postmania]

Sigh, a random $500 charge on my credit card I don't remember making.

Called the company and they're opening an investigation but as a result I have no card now lol

Tried to default to my debit card but it's expired and I have a new card I need to validate at the bank now