Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[Nik Hasta]

Was looking through some old threads and found this post I made about a year ago talking about how the concept of having "God" as a final villain in the One Punch Man would be antithetical to what the series is actually about.

How times change haaaa.

[Nik Hasta]

Okay, at the risk of prompting some long posts...



Anyone feeling any different about Rings of Power with the new trailer?

[Sharpandpointies]

Okay, at the risk of prompting some long posts...



Anyone feeling any different about Rings of Power with the new trailer?

Saw that earlier.

I admit that I loved some parts of it. The Two Trees was a pretty awesome scene. Other parts...less so. I feel the Elrond actor is just...a bad choice, and how he's behaving is less-than-awesome for the character.

I would be willing to TRY the series, based on the trailer (though...hobbits? What are they doing there?). If it takes a whole lot of liberties, that's a different matter, but there is at least room for 'making shit up' in the Second Age, simply because it wasn't all that documented.

...if they start with stuff like 'Actually, Elrond was a real shithead like in the movies', ugh.

Sorry, Nik - no long post.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Looks the part, largely.

Considering that they only have rights to the Lord of the Rings trilogy, the Hobbit, and the appendices however; it's going to be a whole lot of liberties, and 'making shit up'. So can't really comment on the plot itself, but I'd largely agree that Elrond's actor kinda sucks.

[Sharpandpointies]

Looks the part, largely.

Considering that they only have rights to the Lord of the Rings trilogy, the Hobbit, and the appendices however; it's going to be a whole lot of liberties, and 'making shit up'. So can't really comment on the plot itself, but I'd largely agree that Elrond's actor kinda sucks.

Same to all, here.

I mean, Elrond is in theory still young in the Second Age (for at least the start of it, Second Age went for a loooong time), so if they make him into something he wasn't later on, okaaaaay...still feels bleah (and the actor, are they trying to give me 'hayseed yokel'?). I'm just wondering how they're going to deal with humans. Mainly because everything that happens in the Second Age is basically strung out over a LOOOOOONG time.

I...guess they could 'just' concern themselves with the Rings of Power and the Rise/Fall of Númenor, and such. But even that...Sauron does the Ringmaking stuff over 400 years, if we're considering him fooling all of the Elves and getting in good with them as well. Then? All kinds of stuff happen. In 1697 the Elves basically lose the war against Sauron. Númenor shows up, kicks his army's ass, and he has to go hide.

They might try to compress all of that into a short time period, so they can keep using the same humans? Would be...weird.

But then it's like...over a thousand years of decline for Númenor before the real big part of the Second Age happens. And, obviously, with a ton of different humans.

If this series is going to almost exclusively focus on the Eldar, great. Easy enough to have '50 years later' and such. But if they're putting in a lot of humans - which they seem to be - and more dwarves - which they seem to be - there are going to need to be HUGE liberties taken with the timelines...or people accepting that the human characters (and to some extent, the dwarves) will be changing all the time.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I mean, Elrond is in theory still young in the Second Age (for at least the start of it, Second Age went for a loooong time), so if they make him into something he wasn't later on, okaaaaay...still feels bleah (and the actor, are they trying to give me 'hayseed yokel'?).

Yes, 'up and coming grassroots politician' is the general gist of Elrond in this.

They might try to compress all of that into a short time period, so they can keep using the same humans? Would be...weird.

They're focusing on Galadriel, but I think the 'new' characters were designed to keep people invested in the story so it... may well be a short time span.

If this series is going to almost exclusively focus on the Eldar, great. Easy enough to have '50 years later' and such. But if they're putting in a lot of humans - which they seem to be - and more dwarves - which they seem to be - there are going to need to be HUGE liberties taken with the timelines...or people accepting that the human characters (and to some extent, the dwarves) will be changing all the time.

Galadriel and the humans/hobbits.

Interestingly enough they've also added female Orcs.

[Sharpandpointies]

Yes, 'up and coming grassroots politician' is the general gist of Elrond in this.

Which is...okay, we don't know a whole lot about Young Elrond, so whatever.

They're focusing on Galadriel, but I think the 'new' characters were designed to keep people invested in the story so it... may well be a short time span.

I fear massive compression happening. Also, not sure how they're going to reconcile Galadriel running around doing stuff while Sauron-as-Annatar is sucking up to the Elvensmiths, because by that time she had 'founded' Lothlórien.

...I mean, I'm cool with Galadriel running around kicking all kinds of ass, because if anyone is doing that it should be her (hopefully they'll also give nods to her various mystical abilities), but.

Galadriel and the humans/hobbits.

Urgh. I KNOW hobbits are associated with Lord of the Rings, but...they're kind of...not around a whole lot, if at all, back in the Second Age.

Interestingly enough they've also added female Orcs.

I...guess? I mean, Orcs did breed. It's an addition I'm not 100% against, though how they portray Orcs is going to be something I'm curious about.

I'm imagining an attempt to make them more palatable, maybe make one of them 'defect' to the good side (which, going by Tolkien's later thoughts about Orcs, would just never happen).

[Postmania]

There are too many TV shows out there for me to even try to watch anything that doesn't immediately grab me these days lol.

I don't mean that we're in a glut of great shows, but that there are just too many of them

[The Dog]

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Those are supposed to be distant ancestors of Hobbits (kind of like Sméagol’s people were).

There is enough ‘good’ in the trailer I’ll be watching the show (at least at first for sure).

I do hope they keep some of the long expanse of time that the books cover in this, but I won’t be too sad if they compress some of it at least (isn’t Galadriel like dozens of millennia old?).

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Of course, it’s been so long since I read/skimmed/wiki’ed the Silmarillion that I’ll be honest and say some of the First and Second Age events kind of…blur together for me. Hard to keep track sometimes of who did this when, how are they related, and why is that elf dude being a dick right now.

[Jcogginsa]

Of course, it’s been so long since I read/skimmed/wiki’ed the Silmarillion that I’ll be honest and say some of the First and Second Age events kind of…blur together for me. Hard to keep track sometimes of who did this when, how are they related, and why is that elf dude being a dick right now.

I thought this show wasn't legally allowed to reference the Silmarillion

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

I thought this show wasn't legally allowed to reference the Silmarillion

It…..can and can’t in a way.

It can reference everything in the Appendix’s IIRC, and in the LotR and Hobbit.

So a fair amount of the Silmarillion lore can be used so long as it was referenced elsewhere.

[Hiromi]

Guru vomiting up Ginyu is going to haunt my nightmares

Also I have about zero faith in Amazon after Wheel of Time so I'm probably not going to watch its Lord of the Rings offering unless it gets really good word of mouth

[Sharpandpointies]

Those are supposed to be distant ancestors of Hobbits (kind of like Sméagol’s people were).

They refer to themselves are Harfoots, which is one of the actual branches of hobbits (harfoots, stoors, and fallohides). Thing is, these peoples really only show up in the Third Age. So having them running around actually DOING stuff, and other peoples being aware of them, literally thousands of years before...that's a little bizarre.

I do hope they keep some of the long expanse of time that the books cover in this, but I won’t be too sad if they compress some of it at least (isn’t Galadriel like dozens of millennia old?).

Galadriel was born during the Years of the Trees, before the First Age. So she actually saw the Trees, in Valinor. At the time of the beginning of the Second Age, she would likely be between five to ten thousand years old. Could be more; depends when she was born during the years of the Trees (it's hard to get an exact age for Galadriel, because the Years of the Trees aren't nailed down so much 'timewise', I don't know WHEN she was born in Valinor...maybe there's stuff in the Histories, but I'd really need to search for it and I don't feel like cracking open a pile of books ^_^).

By the time things come to a head in the Second Age, we can toss another ~3000 years on top of that.

By the time Lord of the Rings happens, another...what, ~3000 years. I'm approximating, but again, nailing down her exact age is hard, and by this point we're at 'somewhere between ten and sixteen thousand years old', so a few hundred in any direction isn't all that important).

So yeah; old as the hills (literally, in some cases). Small wonder that by the time of the Second and Third Age, she's the most powerful of the Eldar in Middle Earth (not the oldest, but still).

There's going to have to be a whole lot of compression, or every episode will be 'new human characters!' and ever three episodes will be 'new dwarves!'

Of course, it’s been so long since I read/skimmed/wiki’ed the Silmarillion that I’ll be honest and say some of the First and Second Age events kind of…blur together for me. Hard to keep track sometimes of who did this when, how are they related, and why is that elf dude being a dick right now.

It's a safe bet that if you're talking about Noldor, they're all going to be dicks at one point or another (even the Sindar got into this, look at Thingol). Everything (edit: Almost, though we can say the times where it wasn't 'people' it was 'Melkor/Morgoth') awful that happened in the First Age can be summed up as 'Sometimes, people are just dicks'. Yes, this also includes Galadriel.

By the Second Age, the Noldor who are left in Middle Earth (as most of the Noldor and a chunk of the Sindar and other 'dark' elves have - wisely - departed) are calming down. However, they're now looking for ways to make their lives perfect (which is where the problem with the Rings of Power starts) and again, this boils down to 'sometimes people are just dicks', in this case it being 'all of the Noldor (yes, including Galadriel) who remain want to have their cake and eat it too.' They want to live as people who control their areas of Middle Earth, not under the gaze of the Valar (and Galadriel preeeetty specifically falls to this idea due to pride and a desire to be a queen, it's the whole issue that gets referenced when Frodo offers her the Ring and she ends with 'I pass the test' - finally), but at the same time they don't want to go through the wearying issue of time plodding along and them fading (this doesn't happen nearly as quickly in Valinor). Essentially, they want to have Valinor AND be 'free' (not that the Valar actually control them) to do whatever they want in Middle Earth, simultaneously.

Hence, the Rings of Power - the entire point of the Three was to create areas of timelessness for the Elves (which explains Imladris/Rivendell and Lóthlorien) and to kindle their spirits to keep them feeling young and energetic (which was the point of the Ring of Fire, Círdan's Ring). Edit: and boy, did that work out well. -_-

I thought this show wasn't legally allowed to reference the Silmarillion

It…..can and can’t in a way.

It can reference everything in the Appendix’s IIRC, and in the LotR and Hobbit.

So a fair amount of the Silmarillion lore can be used so long as it was referenced elsewhere.

Yeah, there's actually quite a lot sketched out in the Appendices. Enough for them to put in stuff like the Trees, etc.