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  1. #5326
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FistofIron View Post
    I have a buddy in the military who was falsely accused. Even though he proved his innocence that crap followed him for a while.
    sounds about the same with my best friend. sadly, it took something............really bad happening to clear things up for him.

  2. #5327
    Incredible Member FistofIron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    There's a difference between no believing that someone is guilty and accusing someone of making false allegations

    Oh yeah definitely. Just like I believe outright dismissing someone’s claims of victimization isn’t cool I also believe that outright assuming that someone is guilty crappy too.

  3. #5328
    Incredible Member FistofIron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    sounds about the same with my best friend. sadly, it took something............really bad happening to clear things up for him.

    Sorry to hear that bro. It always sucks when stuff like that happens.

  4. #5329
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FistofIron View Post
    Sorry to hear that bro. It always sucks when stuff like that happens.
    it's better now and his scumbag of a ex is paying for it. but his kids? smdh.

  5. #5330
    Reborn Samurai Len Ikari145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    Something that needs to be kept in mind when it comes to #MeToo accusation: False Accusations are incredibly where. Absent of all other context, it is much, much more likely that an accusation is being made in good faith than it is for the accusation to be made in bad faith. "They're making it up" should never be treated with the same level of credibility as "The accused did it", and should only be discussed if there is legitimate evidence indicating it might be fake.
    And when you have hundreds of women, actual photographic and video evidence to corroborate the validity of the crimes accused, and even your colleagues coming out of woodwork against you, you can't dismiss this as "He said/She said". And I'm pretty damn sure that Jamie Marchi and Monica Rial aren't masochistic enough to willfully go through the shitshow going on Twitter and Youtube and potentially put their careers at risk by fabricating their own encounters because they don't like Vic.
    Last edited by Len Ikari145; 02-13-2019 at 02:28 PM.
    Ichigo: What even *are* you?!

    Kenpachi: Some say my mother was a train. Some say that I'm a rejected Godzilla monster too strong for the series canon. But everyone says: I'M THE KEEEEENPACHIIIIII!!!!

  6. #5331
    Reborn Samurai Len Ikari145's Avatar
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    To move to a lighter topic: Platinum Games unveiled their new action RPG for the Switch.

    Last edited by Len Ikari145; 02-13-2019 at 05:50 PM.
    Ichigo: What even *are* you?!

    Kenpachi: Some say my mother was a train. Some say that I'm a rejected Godzilla monster too strong for the series canon. But everyone says: I'M THE KEEEEENPACHIIIIII!!!!

  7. #5332
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    Also, Mario Maker 2


  8. #5333
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    tetris 99.

    not for the weak.

  9. #5334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    Something that needs to be kept in mind when it comes to #MeToo accusation: False Accusations are incredibly where. Absent of all other context, it is much, much more likely that an accusation is being made in good faith than it is for the accusation to be made in bad faith. "They're making it up" should never be treated with the same level of credibility as "The accused did it", and should only be discussed if there is legitimate evidence indicating it might be fake.
    Without going into the actual case(?) itself, I will point it is....far harder to prove something didn't happen, than something did happen--atleast in things where there isn't physical evidence, or evidence that supports a vague outline, or anything to really counter a claim--, which is why it usually falls on the accuser to prove it. It's like civil forefiture, where police take your stuff, because they feel it was involved in some nebulous crime thing, usually without evidence, and to get your stuff back, you have to prove that your stuff has never been used in a crime, which is a tough hurdle to clear.

    Admittedly, it depends on the context, the type of accusation, etc,etc.

    I haven't looked into this story outside of CBR or a friend, but on a conceptual level, I'm hesitant to take heavy action against something, that boils down to two conflicting accounts, with no evidence, and the accused having to aquit themselves by proving something didn't happen. The probability that someone might be truthful, still doesn't mean I wouldn't want evidence before taking measures that could have a drastic impact. Sometimes you might have to, but it's not something I would make a rule of, unless circumstancial evidence was strong, or something...And the severity of the accusation, obviously.

    I suppose if you wanted to, you could argue that is part of the problem, but I don't consider the alternative to be better, in that every claim is not just taken seriously, but treated as a certainty. It's a tricky subject either way.

    I mean, l am inclined to side with the accusers here since there are like 15 years worth of complaints, and apparently some solid evidence in support, but yeah. I do agree that accusations shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, but it should be balanced and investigated as fairly and impartially as you can manage.

    That isn't necessarily directed at you or your post, but it's just my thoughts on the matter in general, since this seems to come up alot.
    Last edited by Miburo; 02-13-2019 at 07:29 PM.

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  11. #5336
    Reborn Samurai Len Ikari145's Avatar
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    Ichigo: What even *are* you?!

    Kenpachi: Some say my mother was a train. Some say that I'm a rejected Godzilla monster too strong for the series canon. But everyone says: I'M THE KEEEEENPACHIIIIII!!!!

  12. #5337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
    Without going into the actual case(?) itself, I will point it is....far harder to prove something didn't happen, than something did happen--atleast in things where there isn't physical evidence, or evidence that supports a vague outline, or anything to really counter a claim--, which is why it usually falls on the accuser to prove it. It's like civil forefiture, where police take your stuff, because they feel it was involved in some nebulous crime thing, usually without evidence, and to get your stuff back, you have to prove that your stuff has never been used in a crime, which is a tough hurdle to clear.

    Admittedly, it depends on the context, the type of accusation, etc,etc.

    I haven't looked into this story outside of CBR or a friend, but on a conceptual level, I'm hesitant to take heavy action against something, that boils down to two conflicting accounts, with no evidence, and the accused having to aquit themselves by proving something didn't happen. The probability that someone might be truthful, still doesn't mean I wouldn't want evidence before taking measures that could have a drastic impact. Sometimes you might have to, but it's not something I would make a rule of, unless circumstancial evidence was strong, or something...And the severity of the accusation, obviously.

    I suppose if you wanted to, you could argue that is part of the problem, but I don't consider the alternative to be better, in that every claim is not just taken seriously, but treated as a certainty. It's a tricky subject either way.

    I mean, l am inclined to side with the accusers here since there are like 15 years worth of complaints, and apparently some solid evidence in support, but yeah. I do agree that accusations shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, but it should be balanced and investigated as fairly and impartially as you can manage.

    That isn't necessarily directed at you or your post, but it's just my thoughts on the matter in general, since this seems to come up alot.
    1. This is not a "He said, She said" situation. It's a "He said, Several dozen other people said and also photographs and videos of him acting like a creep.". In other words, way more than two accounts, and with a great deal of evidence.

    2. Saying that someone else is making it up is in an of itself an accusation of a crime. It is not enough for them to be unable to prove the crime, there must be evidence that they are making it up

  13. #5338
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  14. #5339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    1. This is not a "He said, She said" situation. It's a "He said, Several dozen other people said and also photographs and videos of him acting like a creep.". In other words, way more than two accounts, and with a great deal of evidence.

    2. Saying that someone else is making it up is in an of itself an accusation of a crime. It is not enough for them to be unable to prove the crime, there must be evidence that they are making it up
    I agreed with you on point one. Specifically mentioned evidence and an apparent history.

    Point two....Are you saying that if X says Y commits a crime, and Y says X is lying--or if they are saying they are innocent-- that the latter has to prove the former or it's assumed true?

    I'm not entirely clear on that point.

    And I think from most perspectives, a lack of evidence supporting the crime would be grounds to let people go. If someone was accused of stealing a car, and there was no actual proof to support it other than one person saying they did...

    It would be odd to expect them to prove they didn't steal the car, fighting against evidence that didn't exist, while at the same time proving that the accuser is actively lying about it. Or, at least, I think meeting one of those conditions should be acceptable. From a Legal standpoint, I'm pretty sure the prosecutor has to prove it's likely that the defendant did X, and the defense wouldn't be wrong to point out there is no evidence supporting the claims made. Or they could actively prove the other person is a liar, or both. But in many cases it's hard to prove a negative.

    I mean, you could maybe use an alibi, and argue that there are no prints and hopefully have footage or something that backs your story up, with my weak example but yeah.

    I mean, it gets kind of circular really fast. Or re you saying that outsiders unrelated to the case need to back up the idea that the accuser is lying? That sounds fine.
    Last edited by Miburo; 02-13-2019 at 11:13 PM.

  15. #5340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
    I agreed with you on point one. Specifically mentioned evidence and an apparent history.

    Point two....Are you saying that if X says Y commits a crime, and Y says X is lying--or if they are saying they are innocent-- that the latter has to prove the former or it's assumed true?

    I'm not entirely clear on that point.

    And I think from most perspectives, a lack of evidence supporting the crime would be grounds to let people go. If someone was accused of stealing a car, and there was no actual proof to support it other than one person saying they did...

    It would be odd to expect them to prove they didn't steal the car, fighting against evidence that didn't exist, while at the same time proving that the accuser is actively lying about it. Or, at least, I think meeting one of those conditions should be acceptable. From a Legal standpoint, I'm pretty sure the prosecutor has to prove it's likely that the defendant did X, and the defense wouldn't be wrong to point out there is no evidence supporting the claims made.

    I mean, you could maybe use an alibi, and argue that there are no prints and hopefully have footage or something that backs your story up, but yeah.

    I mean, it gets kind of circular really fast. Or re you saying that outsiders unrelated to the case need to back up the idea that the accuser is lying? That sounds fine.
    What I'm saying is that being unable to prove something in a court of law is not the same as making a false allegation. The Stealing a car example isn't a good comparison, because Stealing a car leaves a trail of physical evidence that is not guaranteed to exist for a sexual assault case.

    It is more likely that the accuser genuinely believes that the accused did the deed but be unable to prove it than it is for the accuser to be making every thing up

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