Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

I mean, if they make a Green Lantern movie and say they are going to use Kyle Raynor, but then make him black/Hispanic/etc...let’s say, that will seem like an odd choice, right? Especially since John Stewart, Jessica Cruz, and others are standing right there, waiting for the role.

That wouldn’t be diverse. That would be lazy/bad casting.

[Nik Hasta]

I will agree with you that there are better choices of character to be put on screen that could have been made, I've long since been an advocate for a John Stewart Green Lantern movie myself. Obviously, while comics are predominantly white they could take the smarter option of giving focus to those originally non-white characters to give them a boost. However, a lot of those characters have nowhere near the mindshare of their white counterparts to be able, in the minds of the execs, to carry a film and are thus considered too risky.

Also, I don't think it's bad or lazy to diversify white characters. Take the terrible Fant4stic film, Michael B Jordan is a great actor and casting him as Johnny Storm was a good choice. That's no laziness there, it was a solid get by the casting team. I don't know this Smollet person but I have no reason to think she'll be bad.

I can't, in anyway, really endorse or understand the view that the character's hair colour really impacts the choice of casting. I thought MJ in Homecoming was a solid bit of casting, she didn't have much to do in the film but she was charismatic enough that she made an impression on me and I look forward to seeing what she does in more films. Her hair colour doesn't really factor into my enjoyment of the film because it's just her hair an there's more to a character than their hair.

[The MunchKING]

http://iancsamson.tumblr.com/post/17...so-long-bowser

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

I will agree with you that there are better choices of character to be put on screen that could have been made, I've long since been an advocate for a John Stewart Green Lantern movie myself. Obviously, while comics are predominantly white they could take the smarter option of giving focus to those originally non-white characters to give them a boost. However, a lot of those characters have nowhere near the mindshare of their white counterparts to be able, in the minds of the execs, to carry a film and are thus considered too risky.

Also, I don't think it's bad or lazy to diversify white characters. Take the terrible Fant4stic film, Michael B Jordan is a great actor and casting him as Johnny Storm was a good choice. That's no laziness there, it was a solid get by the casting team. I don't know this Smollet person but I have no reason to think she'll be bad.

I can't, in anyway, really endorse or understand the view that the character's hair colour really impacts the choice of casting. I thought MJ in Homecoming was a solid bit of casting, she didn't have much to do in the film but she was charismatic enough that she made an impression on me and I look forward to seeing what she does in more films. Her hair colour doesn't really factor into my enjoyment of the film because it's just her hair an there's more to a character than their hair.

Correct, there is more to someone than just their hair color or eye color or skin color. The core of a character is always more important.

But on the extreme end at what point do you draw the line? Well, he’s always worn browns and black in his iconic outfit, but his outfit is blue now in the movie!

Okay.

Her character has a scar on her cheek. Noticeable, and there is a story behind it, but instead it just won’t be on there for our adaptation!

...Sure.

Hey, he’s supposed to be English, but we decided he should have a South African accent instead!

.....What?

Superman’s dark locks and spit curl? Nah, he’s bald now, baby!

......

Outfits, accents, scars, hair: non defining at the core, sure, but still important to the character as a whole. Eventually, if you change enough it’s not an adaptation but a different character. Which comes back around to them actually having to use their plethora of excellent diverse characters instead of leaving them on the wayside.


Now, all that is on the extreme end of examples obviously. I already said I hope she does an amazing job and does BC justice. I’m just saying that when you adapt something, there is a fine balance between keeping it recognizable and keeping it your version, and once you start cutting, it’s harder to find that balance.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

To Michael B Jordon, yes, he was a good Johnny and is a good actor.

The bad casting was Kate Mara, because then they had a whole side story of her being adopted but it didn’t actually do a dang thing in the movie and just cluttered up an already bad film for no reason.

Instead, it would have been easier to cast an African American actress as Sue and gone in for a penny, in for a pound on the Storm family.

It worked with Iris/Joe/Wally on Flash. I think all three do excellent jobs and all three were very well cast.

[Hiromi]

Again feel the need to point out that Zendaya was not cast as Mary Jane, but a new character, her initials being MJ seems like a cheap easter egg and/or escape clause if backlash makes them want to actually introduce an actually Mary Jane character, basically it seems like they're riding the fence

[Lord Falcon]

I will agree with you that there are better choices of character to be put on screen that could have been made, I've long since been an advocate for a John Stewart Green Lantern movie myself. Obviously, while comics are predominantly white they could take the smarter option of giving focus to those originally non-white characters to give them a boost. However, a lot of those characters have nowhere near the mindshare of their white counterparts to be able, in the minds of the execs, to carry a film and are thus considered too risky.

Also, I don't think it's bad or lazy to diversify white characters. Take the terrible Fant4stic film, Michael B Jordan is a great actor and casting him as Johnny Storm was a good choice. That's no laziness there, it was a solid get by the casting team. I don't know this Smollet person but I have no reason to think she'll be bad.

I can't, in anyway, really endorse or understand the view that the character's hair colour really impacts the choice of casting. I thought MJ in Homecoming was a solid bit of casting, she didn't have much to do in the film but she was charismatic enough that she made an impression on me and I look forward to seeing what she does in more films. Her hair colour doesn't really factor into my enjoyment of the film because it's just her hair an there's more to a character than their hair.

I thought MJ in homecoming was far more interesting than her actual comic book character.

Or comic book Mary Jane anyway, since Marvel apparently wants to have their cake and eat it too with regards to Zendaya being MJ but not Mary Jane.

[Jcogginsa]

the sniper attack and the last one.

but if you wish to argue this point, make a thread and see if anything has changed since the last time nightwing/daredevil came up.

btw, this is what dancing between bullets looks like.

Sniper: Maybe the follow up shots were, but he is clearly reacting to the first gunshot after it is fired and not before. It interupts his internal monologue, which clearly indicates that he didn't know about it until after the shot was fired

Machine Gun fire: No, he isn't. I don't see how anyone could look at that panel and think he's aim dodging.

I mean, if they make a Green Lantern movie and say they are going to use Kyle Raynor, but then make him black/Hispanic/etc...let’s say, that will seem like an odd choice, right? Especially since John Stewart, Jessica Cruz, and others are standing right there, waiting for the role.

That wouldn’t be diverse. That would be lazy/bad casting.

Making Kyle hispanic would actually fit, since Kyle is canonically half-hispanic already

[grampagen]

I thought MJ in homecoming was far more interesting than her actual comic book character.

Or comic book Mary Jane anyway, since Marvel apparently wants to have their cake and eat it too with regards to Zendaya being MJ but not Mary Jane.

The popular conception of Mary Jane is usually focused on either the 'Jackpot' moment and how hot she is, or being the damsel in distress wet blanket in the 90s animated series or the Raimi movies that her actual personality is often lost in the shuffle:



Of course, this quality wouldn't come out in a side-character whose function was to be low-key setup for future movies and riffing on people during detention, but I digress.

[grampagen]

Hmm, well, the thing is if it was actually to be more diverse wouldn’t they tell stories/make movies of their, actual, diverse characters? Many of which exist and have existed for a long time and are popular? I would have this problem if they cast her as Cassandra Cain too, by the way, so it’s not just that Jurnee Smolett-Bell is replacing a traditionally white character.

Which ones have the immediate brand-name appeal, though? Nobody off the street knows who Bronze Tiger and Lady Shiva are, and people might know Birds of Prey if they had cable in the 90s.

I mean DC/Warner is reaching deeper and deeper into the barrel for that moneymaking property, so which title is headlined by a diverse character?

While on this board Cassandra is the Batgirl we default to, everyone else is thinking about Barbara, or at least the late Yvonne Craig still.

Perhaps I come from a slightly more jaded stand point then is my problem. This doesn’t feel like they cast it for diversity sake but instead for easy sake. Instead of using a more diverse character in they movie (Cassandra Cain as an example) they instead just changed out a white person.

Perhaps because Canary is so iconic in the blonde (wether wig or natural) that this reveal was more surprising to me (like the MJ one in SM:H. Mary Jane is THE red head). Especially when cast alongside Huntress, who has been of a duskier complexion in comics but yet has Mary Elizabeth Winstead playing her.

In the end, I’m still watching the movie because I like the characters and hope they are done well on the Big Screen. I’m not offended or ruined by the casting, just surprised and curious as to why.

Eh people are still mad Charlie Cox isn't a ginger in spite of his performances in Daredevil. I think it depends on how well they get the fundamental character qualities across.

If they make Helena Bertinelli a Baptist with ties to the mafia, that would be for more egregious. They could put some sort of spin on this version of Dinah Lance being a legacy hero who is still limited to street level justice, especially as real life marches on despite the flexible continuity of comics.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Regarding Zendaya as MJ. I prefered it when she was just Michelle, making her into MJ but not Mary Jane feels a lot like they're trying eat the cake and have it too.

I'd heard the rumor that she was going to be Mary Jane and I was excited since I love Mary Jane. But then she wasn't Mary Jane in the movie and I was a bit disappointed but I enjoyed Michelle as she was fun and Zendaya's performance was very enjoyable. The reveal that her nickname is MJ left me with mixed emotions since we have a perfectly fine new character that becomes a well-established part of the supporting cast in the movie, and then they attach part of a beloved character from the comics to this new character. I just don't get why they felt the need to do that.

I don't hate it, but it just seems unecessary to me.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Even Yusuke Murata, the guy that draws One Punch-Man, has drawn his own version of Bowsette.

Bowsette's power know no bounds.

[Farealmer]

Even Yusuke Murata, the guy that draws One Punch-Man, has drawn his own version of Bowsette.

Bowsette's power know no bounds.

Band wagon's are a hella drug.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Speaking of things related to One Punch Man, a new chapter is out.

...damn these guys are hella fast.

[KingofPie]

Which ones have the immediate brand-name appeal, though? Nobody off the street knows who Bronze Tiger and Lady Shiva are, and people might know Birds of Prey if they had cable in the 90s.

I mean DC/Warner is reaching deeper and deeper into the barrel for that moneymaking property, so which title is headlined by a diverse character?

While on this board Cassandra is the Batgirl we default to, everyone else is thinking about Barbara, or at least the late Yvonne Craig still.

Don't particularly care about who's cast as who, but I disagree with this slightly. I feel like the need for name recognition isn't as prevalent as much as it once was. Nobody going to the movies knew who the Guardians of the Galaxy were for instance, people just saw that based on Marvel's previous track record. Now, of course...DC doesn't have that, but I don't think it's impossible for them to make money off of relatively unknown characters. I mean, from what I understand they're still making a New Gods movie and nobody knows who the hell any of those motherfuckers are lol.