Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[master of read]

shad has already looked at two star wars fights: obi-wan vs. Anakin (better than you think) and the throne room fight from TLJ (worse than you can imagine)

now he looks at the iconic first duel between luke and vader.

[The MunchKING]

Well, since the episode vanished from Youtube, here's a link to the Death Battle episode "Danny Phantom vs. Jake Long" on Roosterteeth.

spoilers:

Danny Phantom wins, and next time is She-Ra vs. Wonder Woman.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Well, not having seen their video, I'm going to say that outcome makes sense. Danny can turn intangible relative to the "Real World", and Jake never really studied magic, so he'll have a hard time hitting an intangible. Also Danny's energy blasts have a WAY longer range than Jake's fire breath.

end of spoilers

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

What do you mean by over-analyse exactly?

Pretty sure I expressed what I meant, but let's try some more:

A trans reading of the work of two prominent trans creators isn't a deep pull.

Considering the vague and overarching 'theme' of the Matrix being "overcoming deception" which is also paired with some not-so-subtle messianic themes? I'd say you're not taking into consideration the themes of the movie itself.

To explain my side of it more:

The timing of the first Matrix doesn't jibe with Lana's own comments on the matter. She only started to struggle/realize/express (though it seems quite fair to say she's always known in one form or another) during the sequel(s). I'm not discounting that there might be some allusion to it in the original, the subconscious is a powerful thing... but to take a piece and use it as fact from someone who ISN'T Lana, or Lilly; is fairly rude to them.

And I feel, y'know, they are the most important people in the discussion. Not someone with a neat idea.

More relevant to my own comments however, I disagreed with- and only had a problem with- Jconsigga implying it was known fact, while citing a near decade old article with what I can tell; no follow-up or confirmation. Closest 'confirmation' is a piece from Vox in 2019 that does less to back up the though, than express an opinion.

[The Dog]

spoilers:

Well, not having seen their video, I'm going to say that outcome makes sense. Danny can turn intangible relative to the "Real World", and Jake never really studied magic, so he'll have a hard time hitting an intangible. Also Danny's energy blasts have a WAY longer range than Jake's fire breath.

end of spoilers

[spoiler]Due to Jake fighting ghosts before, they determined he COULD hit Danny. He's also more trained than Danny and they're equal in speed. But they state Danny is more durable, capable of more destructive output, and has abilities that Jake doesn't have feats to counter, like possession and invisibility.[/spoiler]

And it's back on Youtube:

[The MunchKING]

spoilers:

Due to Jake fighting ghosts before, they determined he COULD hit Danny. He's also more trained than Danny and they're equal in speed. But they state Danny is more durable, capable of more destructive output, and has abilities that Jake doesn't have feats to counter, like possession and invisibility.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Huh, I thought he needed special magic for that. Now I'll have to rewatch American Dragon: Jake Long. Durable? Maybe. They're both cartoon heroes that have take pretty physical beatings before. More destructive and more abilities almost definitely.

end of spoilers

[Guy1]

Last Airbender Cartoon is on Netflix! I've missed these kids.

[Sub-Zero MKA]

Last Airbender Cartoon is on Netflix! I've missed these kids.

Its longevity is astounding. There are dozens of analysis videos on every aspect of the series. Twelve years later and people are still obsessed with it

It's easily my favorite cartoon in recent memory.

[The MunchKING]

Last Airbender Cartoon is on Netflix! I've missed these kids.

Just the reruns from Nick, or one of those "Netflix does a reboot/sequel" things?

[Guy1]

Just the reruns from Nick, or one of those "Netflix does a reboot/sequel" things?

It's the OG series that aired on Nick. All three seasons.

[The MunchKING]

It's the OG series that aired on Nick. All three seasons.

Oh good. I don't need to get Netflix then, because I bought that full series on DVD.

[Jcogginsa]

Oh good. I don't need to get Netflix then, because I bought that full series on DVD.

Though IIRC, Netflix is working on a Live Action Adaptation

[The MunchKING]

Though IIRC, Netflix is working on a Live Action Adaptation

We saw how well that worked for Shamalan.

[Sub-Zero MKA]

We saw how well that worked for Shamalan.

What does M Night have to do with ATLA?

[The MunchKING]

What does M Night have to do with ATLA?

Ignorance, as they say, is truly Bliss.

[Nik Hasta]

Considering the vague and overarching 'theme' of the Matrix being "overcoming deception" which is also paired with some not-so-subtle messianic themes? I'd say you're not taking into consideration the themes of the movie itself.

To explain my side of it more:

The timing of the first Matrix doesn't jibe with Lana's own comments on the matter. She only started to struggle/realize/express (though it seems quite fair to say she's always known in one form or another) during the sequel(s). I'm not discounting that there might be some allusion to it in the original, the subconscious is a powerful thing... but to take a piece and use it as fact from someone who ISN'T Lana, or Lilly; is fairly rude to them.

And I feel, y'know, they are the most important people in the discussion. Not someone with a neat idea.

More relevant to my own comments however, I disagreed with- and only had a problem with- Jconsigga implying it was known fact, while citing a near decade old article with what I can tell; no follow-up or confirmation. Closest 'confirmation' is a piece from Vox in 2019 that does less to back up the though, than express an opinion.

So, to be clear, I don't agree with Jcogg in their original assertion that the red pill is literally estrogen. Note my use of the term "literally" there, as in the pill literally being estrogen is not something that's in the text of the film. The "red pill" is a piece of digital code that makes you wake up from the vast computerised simulation that is normal reality. Strictly speaking, real world estrogen does not do that.

However, is it an element that feeds heavily into a trans reading of the film? Absolutely it does.

However, my query was specifically was why you consider it an "over-analysis" to look at the Matrix from a trans perspective. You cite the intentions of the Wachowskis at the time of making it but we, as in the worlds of art academia and art critique, have been less interested in authorial intent or treating it as sacrosanct since the at least the 1960s with Roland Barthes' 'Death of the Author,' if not much longer with the rise of postmodernism after the World Wars.

Ultimately, despite creating the piece, the Wachowskis are nothing but a singular set of interpretations on the piece of art that they made. Their perspective on the meaning or thematic reading of the piece doesn't actually have significantly more weight than anyone else's and nor should it. A piece can have a whole host of other meanings depending on who is looking at it.

You say that it's rude, which I frankly don't understand as a point. Quite apart from the fact that at least one of the sisters has literally said; "There has been a lot recent reassessment of our work in light of our transness. This is cool!", every piece of art ends up with meaning outside the intention of its creator, that's just how art works and, arguably, what it is supposed to do.

Looking at your final point, your objection is less about the interpretation of art per say and more the presentation of elements of said interpretation being presented as objective fact which, amusingly, means we arrive with us both on the same side of the argument.