Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[Jcogginsa]

So Shaman King is getting a new anime. As someone whose never seen the old one, I'm interesting in checking it out.

[Nik Hasta]

So Shaman King is getting a new anime. As someone whose never seen the old one, I'm interesting in checking it out.

The original anime had a ton of filler and also got so far ahead of the manga, which didn't have the most consistent release schedule, that the latter end of the plot and entire characters are either rewritten or written out entirely. It definitely did not catch the very specific and bittersweet message of the manga's ending and instead went to a more conventional "with the power of my friends we can defeat god and do anything," kind of thing.

It'd be nice to see the series being given a proper go in the anime. I hope they get a good director for it, Shaman King has a really specific aesthetic and you'd want the animation to reflect that.

[master of read]

new one piece out.

you know, seeing a lot of hype for kaido's son. something tells me he's gonna be a game changer when he shows up.

[Len Ikari145]

The original anime had a ton of filler and also got so far ahead of the manga, which didn't have the most consistent release schedule, that the latter end of the plot and entire characters are either rewritten or written out entirely. It definitely did not catch the very specific and bittersweet message of the manga's ending and instead went to a more conventional "with the power of my friends we can defeat god and do anything," kind of thing.

It'd be nice to see the series being given a proper go in the anime. I hope they get a good director for it, Shaman King has a really specific aesthetic and you'd want the animation to reflect that.

The only studios I feel comfortable animating Shaman King are BONES, I.G. or Ufotable.

[Len Ikari145]

Edens Zero's anime was also announced.

[Nik Hasta]

The only studios I feel comfortable animating Shaman King are BONES, I.G. or Ufotable.

Kind of the anyone but Gainax approach, eh?

I don't know about Ufotable, they've done good work on Fate and Demon Slayer but I don't know if they've done anything that suggests that they'd be right for the exact feel for Shaman King.

I.G could probably do it well. Bones I would trust if they had the kinds of teams that they had on say Space Dandy, Mob Psycho and Kekkai Sensen.

Personally, I'd love to see what Trigger would do with it. I think they could do a really good job. They can do ridiculous action and really out there aesthetics but Kiznaiver showed they could do the kind of quiet emotional work that really makes Shaman King work.

[master of read]

if you need a refresher on the succession war arc of HXH, here it is.

and once again, i see another youtuber who see just how big of a monster Tserriednich is.

[KingofPie]

new one piece out.

you know, seeing a lot of hype for kaido's son. something tells me he's gonna be a game changer when he shows up.

With all this hype he's either gonna be real badass or real dumb. I'm excited for both.

if you need a refresher on the succession war arc of HXH, here it is.

and once again, i see another youtuber who see just how big of a monster Tserriednich is.

I'll have to watch this later. I've read through that arc twice and all I remember is the greatest Nen ability of all....GIANT TEXT WALL.

[KingofPie]

Dude was working for Umbrella in 7. I knew despite his actions in that game I doubted he was still a true blue good guy anymore, this confirms it.

This is true, though it seemed he himself didn't really trust Umbrella in his dlc.

[Nik Hasta]

I'll have to watch this later. I've read through that arc twice and all I remember is the greatest Nen ability of all....GIANT TEXT WALL.

When Togashi is on point, he's amazing.

When he's not on point, you get walls of text and the entirety of the Greed Island arc.

The current arc has been... a bit challenging in terms of maintaining engagement.

[Jcogginsa]

When Togashi is on point, he's amazing.

When he's not on point, you get walls of text and the entirety of the Greed Island arc.

The current arc has been... a bit challenging in terms of maintaining engagement.

HunterXHunter is very weird to me. It's very good at the deeper thematic level stuff, but struggles at the surface level spectacle stuff that most series use to draw people into the deeper stuff.

I can't really think of many HunterxHunter fights with a truly memorable bit of choreography in it. In Dragonball, you have stuff like Goku and Vegeta's beam clash, or the Warp Kamehameha, for example. Those aren't deep moments, but they're memorable.

Contrast that with something like Meruem vs Netero. In my meory, that entire fight is basically "Meruem lunges at Netero, gets bopped away, rinse and repeat"

[Nik Hasta]

HunterXHunter is very weird to me. It's very good at the deeper thematic level stuff, but struggles at the surface level spectacle stuff that most series use to draw people into the deeper stuff.

I can't really think of many HunterxHunter fights with a truly memorable bit of choreography in it. In Dragonball, you have stuff like Goku and Vegeta's beam clash, or the Warp Kamehameha, for example. Those aren't deep moments, but they're memorable.

Contrast that with something like Meruem vs Netero. In my meory, that entire fight is basically "Meruem lunges at Netero, gets bopped away, rinse and repeat"

Interesting, I would hard disagree on your assessment.

I find DBZ generally entirely forgettable. The most memorable thing in the show, to me, is the Father/Son Kamehameha and that is summarily undercut by what happened to Gohan in the Buu Saga and the fact the show didn't end with the Cell Saga. Even then, nothing in DBZ feels like it has weight to it for me.

That's partly because it was so inspirational to the shonen genre that it has been replicated and iterated on ad nausea but also because Dragonball, and I mean no disrespect by this, Dragonball is a largely superficial, by-the-numbers, battle manga that established tropes that we now take for granted but had no deeper soul to it. There's no real weight to any of the fights because... it's DBZ, obviously nothing matters.

HxH has a lot of fights that, to me at least, were much more engaging both in terms of choreography and storytelling. Gon vs Pitou for example, the apex of an emotional arc that had spent an entire arc building very quietly and was a wonderful inversion of the "For my friends," powerup trope that is so common in Shonen.

Kurapika versus Ubogin; bombastic, potent, a great example of doing a tremendous amount of build [Ugo spends the entire preceding events of arc getting built up as a monster and Kurapika takes him to pieces]. There's really clever stuff done in there in terms of how they fight and what is being established.

Even Meruem vs Netero. That fight, while comparatively choreographically simplistic [insofar as most of the fight is implied rather than shown] does some interesting things of playing with the roles of hero and villain. Netero, despite being the de facto hero, is conniving, cruel, trickster-ish and, ultimately, much more monstrous than his literally inhuman opponent. It's a brilliantly done manipulation of audience expectations after the build up of the King as this dangerous, bloodthirsty monster.

Chrono versus Hisoka is a multi-layered combination of poker and horrendous violence that is deeply engaging.

DBZ seldom had any moments that hit as hard as any of the above.

I think the closest would be Android 18 breaking Vegeta's arm. That was pretty gnarly and felt like it happened and Tien trying to hold down Cell with Shin Kikohou. But otherwise... kickies and punchies and beams and that's it.

In short, I think about HxH fights a lot more than DBZ and I don't even like HxH that much.

[Jcogginsa]

Interesting, I would hard disagree on your assessment.

I find DBZ generally entirely forgettable. The most memorable thing in the show, to me, is the Father/Son Kamehameha and that is summarily undercut by what happened to Gohan in the Buu Saga and the fact the show didn't end with the Cell Saga. Even then, nothing in DBZ feels like it has weight to it for me.

That's partly because it was so inspirational to the shonen genre that it has been replicated and iterated on ad nausea but also because Dragonball, and I mean no disrespect by this, Dragonball is a largely superficial, by-the-numbers, battle manga that established tropes that we now take for granted but had no deeper soul to it. There's no real weight to any of the fights because... it's DBZ, obviously nothing matters.

HxH has a lot of fights that, to me at least, were much more engaging both in terms of choreography and storytelling. Gon vs Pitou for example, the apex of an emotional arc that had spent an entire arc building very quietly and was a wonderful inversion of the "For my friends," powerup trope that is so common in Shonen.

Kurapika versus Ubogin; bombastic, potent, a great example of doing a tremendous amount of build [Ugo spends the entire preceding events of arc getting built up as a monster and Kurapika takes him to pieces]. There's really clever stuff done in there in terms of how they fight and what is being established.

Even Meruem vs Netero. That fight, while comparatively choreographically simplistic [insofar as most of the fight is implied rather than shown] does some interesting things of playing with the roles of hero and villain. Netero, despite being the de facto hero, is conniving, cruel, trickster-ish and, ultimately, much more monstrous than his literally inhuman opponent. It's a brilliantly done manipulation of audience expectations after the build up of the King as this dangerous, bloodthirsty monster.

Chrono versus Hisoka is a multi-layered combination of poker and horrendous violence that is deeply engaging.

DBZ seldom had any moments that hit as hard as any of the above.

I think the closest would be Android 18 breaking Vegeta's arm. That was pretty gnarly and felt like it happened and Tien trying to hold down Cell with Shin Kikohou. But otherwise... kickies and punchies and beams and that's it.

In short, I think about HxH fights a lot more than DBZ and I don't even like HxH that much.

I used DBZ as an example because I figured it was the most widely know possibility, not because it was the best counter example.

See, the fights you describe from HxH are very interesting from the deeper, thematic standpoint. I'm not denying that.

But when I think of those fights*, I can't picture any specific moments from them. They're a blur. That's what I mean by choreography. Which I picture Goku versus Vegeta, I can see specific moments from those fights in my head. For HxH fights, for most I can picture the ending at best. For Kurapika vs Uvogin, I can't even picture that, just the part where Kurapika tries to interrogate him

* With the exception of Chrollo vs Hisoka, as I've only seen the anime, which doesn't cover that part.

[Nik Hasta]

I used DBZ as an example because I figured it was the most widely know possibility, not because it was the best counter example.

See, the fights you describe from HxH are very interesting from the deeper, thematic standpoint. I'm not denying that.

But when I think of those fights*, I can't picture any specific moments from them. They're a blur. That's what I mean by choreography. Which I picture Goku versus Vegeta, I can see specific moments from those fights in my head. For HxH fights, for most I can picture the ending at best. For Kurapika vs Uvogin, I can't even picture that, just the part where Kurapika tries to interrogate him

* With the exception of Chrollo vs Hisoka, as I've only seen the anime, which doesn't cover that part.

Interesting.

I cannot recall much of any specific choreography from DBZ. I get the same blur thing you describe.

I mean, if I was to pick some powerful stuff where the choreography has spoken to me - Serei no Moribito, Kekkai Sensen, Kimetsu no Yaiba and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure leap to mind. There are moments from all these series that I can picture perfectly.

Also One Piece and, technically, though I think the series, isn't that impressive in terms of actual choreography, My Hero Academia.

I remember, potently, the ending of the Luffy vs Lucci fight. The Plus Ultra versus Noumu has been burned into my brain by this point.

DBZ has like... the Father-Son Kamehameha, Vegeta's arm getting broken, arguably Trunks killing Frieza... and that's about it.

[KingofPie]

When Togashi is on point, he's amazing.

When he's not on point, you get walls of text and the entirety of the Greed Island arc.

The current arc has been... a bit challenging in terms of maintaining engagement.

It's a shame since the current arc has a lot of potential. Maybe it'll shape up once he returns to it...provided he's in a better mood lol