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  1. #1516
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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  2. #1517

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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    It’s good to see Lorna has no position on Angel killing her possessed father... wait. We spent a year of Lorna on and off emoting over how terrible it was Havok was possessed like she had been so many times and how she needs to save him to the level of overkill. Now that her father who helped her save Havok is possessed she doesn’t give a **** he is possessed or if he lives or dies.

    Beware Polaris fans I am both a Polaris fans and a Magneto fan and many a Magneto fan I talk to are not happy at all about him being depicted as a plot device slave much like Lorna was for so long.


    Coming soon.

    They accept Lorna getting a moment of awesome out of the deal much like Storm got from Lorna in the 70s and 80s over and over again just less in your face then anything CC wrote there.

    But, they also share my view on Lorna’s attitude towards him in general and when live action Lorna ends so too likely will Lorna’s push and many of her fair weather friends as well. Marvel can have Lorna act as blasé as they want towards an enslaved Magneto, but only Lorna fans and their response can turn the legions of Magneto fans out there against Lorna.

    Oh and Lorna’s lack of response here convinced me I will be sitting out issue 6.
    Last edited by jmc247; 12-13-2018 at 09:30 PM.

  3. #1518
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    My take is that Lorna had no reaction bc she knew Archangel couldnt hurt Magneto. He has metal wings and well Magneto controls magnetism. Thats the only way to make sense of it but the art should have her react especially given the fury that was fueled in her in the last issue. It seems off to just have her stand their emotionless
    Last edited by Havok83; 12-13-2018 at 04:23 PM.

  4. #1519
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    If there is anyone who should show concern, and attempt to intervene or stand up for Magneto's behalf, it should be Polaris. Definitely a missed opportunity by the writers here. Lorna should have a bigger arc with her Dad, and its apparent that she won't. I believe five was meant to be her big moment, and now she'll likely just have a line or two here and there.

  5. #1520
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    I'm guessing that Lorna is mostly in Uncanny because she's kind of popular now, and for the record Alex is sitting in prison so you can't say that he's getting a push from Marvel, and that it depends on how the individual writers treat Lorna, Bunn would probably have had her care more than she did but I think right now it's all about Warren and Betsy and Lorna gets relegated to the sidelines with the others...

  6. #1521

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    My take is that Lorna had no reaction bc she knew Archangel couldnt hurt Magneto. He has metal wings and well Magneto controls magnetism. Thats the only way to make sense of it but the art should have her react especially given the fury that was fueled in her in the last issue. It seems off to just have her stand their emotionless
    When possessed one isn’t necessarily playing with a full deck and ones reaction time isn’t necessarily what it should be, Lorna knows that better then anyone as Archangel caused severe potentially live threatening injuries to her with metal shards.



    I did try, but I can’t head canon the iteration of Lorna they are writing here gives a damn about her father and if he is possessed or if he lives or dies based on what we have been given so far here and one shouldn’t be left to try hard to head canon it as a line or two as Jubilee had isn’t hard to add.
    Last edited by jmc247; 12-13-2018 at 07:02 PM.

  7. #1522
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    Alex is sitting in prison so you can't say that he's getting a push from Marvel
    Alex is one of the next Uncanny writer's three favorite pet characters, and is the one he can most self-insert into. He is going to be more prominent than ever next year.


    My take on that #6 scene is that the X-Men are as emotionally invested in what's happening as the writers are in Lorna, or as the fans are in this event.

  8. #1523

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    Any time a fan of another character says their character is being treated poorly, I generally defer to their judgment. They have a better idea of that character's history, what fits their nature, etc than I do. Especially when it comes to comic books, where there's a lot I don't know.

    There's also another reason that should be obvious but often isn't: I may simply miss that something was bad or the gravity of it because I'm not looking with as critical of an eye as I do for Lorna. That's the value of listening to the fans of other characters on such things.

    Anyway, my thoughts.

    I don't think Magneto's treatment thus far for this event is as serious as how Lorna's been treated before, but I can see it's definitely bad after having seen some Magneto fans call attention to it. It's not as bad because most people know Magneto well enough to know this isn't at all normal for him. But "not as bad" does not mean "not bad." A stab wound that isn't as deep is still a stab wound. You're still going to die from it if it's not treated. Magneto's still being used as a plot device for X-Man's story, which is part of a whole host of problematic tropes that keep sneaking into comics due to misguided nostalgia and how it has subconsciously influenced writers' and editors' views of how to tell stories. Similarly, I saw someone else point out the fatshaming of Blob in Uncanny X-Men #5. Good reminder that in a scenario like this, it's often not just one of them that gets a raw deal, it's all of them.

    In my opinion, a good way of course correcting would be to provide more dialogue and insight/introspection into these characters to better get across not simply "This isn't who they really are," but how screwed up it is that their minds have been hijacked to serve X-Man's will. And, as I said previously, right now is the exact right time for concerns and complaints such as this to come out. Handle them now instead of letting them fester and make a huge mess across decades.

    At the same time, I find myself thinking quite a bit about how people reacted (or didn't react) to how poorly Dreamer's death was handled on Gifted for the purpose of advancing all the other characters' stories. Bad character death is worse than bad brainwashing in my eyes. At least with bad brainwashing you have a shot at it being made up for with future writing. With bad character death, that's never going to happen. However that character gets killed off is the final impression left permanently on what their perceived worth was - and whether or not they deserved a modicum of respect before going out.
    Last edited by salarta; 12-13-2018 at 07:18 PM.
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  9. #1524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Alex is one of the next Uncanny writer's three favorite pet characters, and is the one he can most self-insert into. He is going to be more prominent than ever next year.


    My take on that #6 scene is that the X-Men are as emotionally invested in what's happening as the writers are in Lorna, or as the fans are in this event.
    He won't be if he's on the same team with Scott and Alex would only do anything if said writer is going to be the one to write him going forward, otherwise who knows...as for Lorna like I said, different writers could easily view her relationship with Magneto VERY differently than Bunn and many here do...

  10. #1525

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    He won't be if he's on the same team with Scott and Alex would only do anything if said writer is going to be the one to write him going forward, otherwise who knows...as for Lorna like I said, different writers could easily view her relationship with Magneto VERY differently than Bunn and many here do...
    One of best attributes of Lorna in her fifty year history is she is fiercely protective of those she cares about... even when they screw up badly and certainly when they seem to be possessed.

    The Lorna I came to be a fan of would lay down her life in a second for the people she cares about. That includes Jean and Bobby and most certainly Havok and Magneto. You spent over a year saying Lorna has to save Havok, he is mentally messed up sort of like she has been at times (which she figured out very quickly and with much less evidence then Magneto is presenting right now) and she spent a year of comic time focused on that task. I never argued to you she shouldn't care and shouldn't be focused on it once.

    Your argument amounts to not this is out of character for Lorna based on events that have transpired, but the current x-office may have an entirely different view on what Lorna and Magneto's relationship should be. Which though true is entirely unhelpful, because I know Lorna's entire history as a character. She has never acted anything like this towards someone she had been at one time close to at any time in her history and certainly not Magneto.

    But, you could be right, the new x-office could be led by people who absolutely hated New X-Men 132 of Lorna in tears and hugging Jean before a certain statue and later in UXM #443 Lorna making a statue of Xavier and Magneto as heretical to their image of Lorna. If so they will run out of things to do with her real fast and probably already have for Dissembled.





    Even at many other times that they did have a highly contentious relationship in the past over things Magneto in his right mind did worse then anything he did here she wouldn't have reacted this way. No character among the group of X-Men should be able to empathize with his current plight more then Lorna and it would have been good for the whole Disassembled arc and given it a more solid emotional heart to the story.

    If you wanted a moment sticking it to the old man even though clearly not in his right mind you had it.

    But, no empathy for him and not even caring if he lives or dies? That hurts Lorna as a character not Magneto. In the end how Lorna responds here is not about Magneto it’s about Lorna and what kind of person she is.
    Last edited by jmc247; 12-13-2018 at 10:38 PM.

  11. #1526
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    I wasn't saying that Lorna shouldn't or wouldn't try to help Magneto undo what Nate did to him, only that the Uncanny writers might not view it the same way is all...and only said that Lorna would try to help Alex, not that she had to save him but that she would at the very least try to do something and she'd be the one that would be most likely to be able to accomplish it, and if she couldn't then Magneto certainly couldn't...

  12. #1527

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    So, something I wanted to post earlier today. I have a lot of songs that remind me of Lorna, that I listen to regularly. Halestorm is perhaps the main artist for this for me. This morning, the song that had me going was "Reckoning." But right now, the song that resonates most for me and feels most appropriate is "Black Vultures."



    It's such an anthem of defiance and persistent survival in the face of great adversity - which is what touches me so deeply about Lorna's nature and her history. She's been possessed, mind-controlled, tortured, radically had her body altered by the likes of Zaladane and Apocalypse, and she's had multiple men try to influence her toward certain paths rather than actually trying to help her find her own path. In spite of all that, she's still out there fighting, increasingly doing her thing, and nobody's managed to kill her yet despite all the suffering she's been put through. It's something other characters rarely if ever deal with - and as I can be empathetic to other characters treated the same way, I find myself starting to wonder if perhaps fans of other characters need a brief taste of it to build similar empathy for others' faves. As I notice fans too often are just fine with a character being treated poorly if they're not personally invested in that character, but when it's their own fave on the line, the situation changes.


    "Uncomfortable" is also a pretty good song for the current phase of Lorna's existence - caught between the "comfortable" regressive ideas of her from past decades, and how her breaking free of those ideas makes some people uncomfortable enough to try and push her back into them. That song was recently nominated for a Grammy, by the way.
    Last edited by salarta; 12-13-2018 at 11:52 PM.
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  13. #1528
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    I said last year that Polaris ignoring Alex's problem would be OOC. Regardless of how I feel about them, Lorna outright ignoring cosmic ring's inversion when she's present in the same book as him, wouldn't make sense for the character. The problem with Blue was that it ended up being the sole reason she was there. Had we gotten more of her training the O5, and had her relationship with Magneto developed in more significant way, it wouldn't have been such a problem for me, but its the story Bunn wanted to tell.

    With Uncanny, to have Lorna just standing around not trying to intervene, or at least worried, doesn't ring true to me. Lorna and her Dad spent a significant chunk of time working together, and this situation is similar to Blue. Magneto isn't in his right mind, and although she has no means to break through the possession herself, she could still be drawn as looking worried, or given a line or two similar to Jubilee. I liked getting to see Lorna's short temper at play here, and enjoyed what we got with #5, but them not doing more with the two of them is a missed opportunity. Maybe we'll get some kind of dialogue down the line with Lorna being concerned about her dad, but I don't think we will.

  14. #1529

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    Lorna's behavior could have been presented as her being deliberately confrontational in hopes that it would snap Magneto out of the brainwashing. She has a habit of thinking that confrontation will fix things, e.g. she thought putting herself in danger by getting in front of a Sentinel would restore her powers. However, that's an idea I'm floating rather than something that was outright said or implied in the issue. This is a good example of a place where thought bubbles would've been a huge help. Something to be pursued in the future. And I still think the answer would've been to just in general provide readers with deeper insight into what it's like for the Horsemen to end up the way they did. Same argument I make for stuff like Lorna's time as Pestilence, a part of her history I actually like and support (sans Daap). Just needed more exploration.

    That said, I'm still going to buy and read future issues of Uncanny X-Men if they have a scene that's meaningful for Lorna. I'll consider changing that approach if a character gets written as incredibly stupid while in control of themselves and then killed off just to make another character look good. Like how Sugar Man was written as using metal weapons to attack Magneto and then killed in the process in the final arc of the Magneto solo.

    I also bought and read that latest issue of Mr. and Mrs. X last night and it was alright. Now I understand what Lorna and Jean were talking about. If I were being overly critical, I don't think Lorna would've been surprised about Gambit's behavior or the outcome, but it's really not a big thing.
    Last edited by salarta; 12-14-2018 at 12:48 PM.
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    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

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  15. #1530

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    And now, I have something else important to point out that I notice people often either forget or don't realize.

    The initial reaction to a comic book, a film, a video game, a TV show episode, etc is very often not an accurate indicator of how general audiences and hardcore fans feel about that thing.

    When Square-Enix released 3rd Birthday, the overwhelming majority of people talking about it on websites I looked at actually supported the game and every single thing it did. The game was horrendously insulting, sexist trash that made a mockery of the original game while reducing what was one of the best female game protagonists of the 90s into a cowardly sex object. Yet if you went just by what people said right when it came out, you'd think it was the best game ever made out of the Parasite Eve franchise and Aya Brea. It was only after the game had been out for a while, and those people who blindly praised the game had moved on, that the real picture started to surface. What general audiences and full-fledged fans really thought took time to bubble up.

    I've seen similar behavior with other things, like online talk about Final Fantasy 13, or Soul Calibur V, or the live action Resident Evil films. Even with Polaris, the initial response to each issue released of Blue seemed to suggest a majority of people loved every single moment, including the ones that did poorly by Lorna. It's only many months later, after the ravers have moved on, that there's a clearer view of how those scenes truly read.

    My point is this. If you see something done wrong in Uncanny X-Men or anywhere, and it looks like a majority of consumers think it's some of the bestest writing ever, what you're seeing may not be what you think you're seeing.

    That doesn't mean a person should wait before complaining about something they see as a big problem. It only means that it's often unwise to rush to judgment before the dust has settled. Just a little thing I've learned from over a decade of experience observing this kind of behavior with video games.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

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