Lorna Dane: Polaris Appreciation 2018

[salarta]

And now I get around to here to post a much shorter, more condensed version of things I already said elsewhere.

Lorna kept the hell away from Havok in the teaser art is good. I'm also very glad she's in her iconic costume, because it represents her and will help her stand out a lot more for people looking for her (e.g. fans of a certain interpretation on a certain show). That she's included in the event at all is a good thing, though a part of me wonders if "every remaining mutant on the planet will come together" is the reason. Marvel objectively looks bad if they make such a claim and don't include her.

Final visuals note: Lorna in back, Havok at front. I saw the "fliers in back" reason, but Storm and Jean are up front too and they fly. My conclusion is that Marvel is showing they think Havok is important and Lorna isn't. And Iceman and Angel being in the back too aren't enough to make me think otherwise.

Then the details.

"Where the series goes from there depends on who is left standing!" So, character death, which superhero comics suck at hard. I already don't like the event given that detail. Insofar as Lorna is concerned, I'm expecting she'll be killed off. Hell mode: killed off to promote Havok. Lorna's treatment on Blue already shows Marvel thinks her primary value is to benefit Havok. Killing her off for that purpose would just be Marvel taking their bias against her all the way. And I think people at Marvel would convince themselves that killing her off is "acceptable" after they "technically" satisfied giving her more of a presence in the past year via Blue, even though that presence wasn't using or respecting her much. Last time they gave her as much presence as Blue was Secret Wars, and they followed that up by throwing her into forced limbo for two years. There's also how Gail Simone said she thought pitching a Polaris solo would be a "hard sell," which in light of this announcement makes me ponder if she said that because she knows Marvel's going to kill Lorna off.

In the end, we don't know anything for sure yet. We need more details. Anything said right now is pure speculation. However, I base the above speculation on historical and recent treatment of Lorna to make educated guesses on what's likely. They may not be pleasant, but I would rather be prepared than exclusively follow hopeful thinking - which other users cover more than enough to balance out anything I say - and get blindsided.

I certainly hope Marvel proves my guesses wrong.

[salarta]

And Now For Something Completely Different.

https://twitter.com/XMenSaga/status/1028000658262241280

Thread where people say their top 10 favorite X-Women. Lorna is on most of the lists.

[AZPolaris]

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Any thoughts on Lorna mentoring/teaching a younger group of students? It's a role she just started to take on in Blue. Could be an interesting new path.

[MyriVerse]

Her and her team were the only interesting things in X-Men: Blue.

[Soulsword323]

Her teaching younger students would be something new, so I wouldn't be too opposed to it. Although it isn't what I would prefer for the character if I'm being honest.

[Heroine Addict]

If those students were of a more atypical and/or rebellious nature, like Dust & Hellion say, I'd be ALL for it. My imagination is running wild right now, just at the thought! 8D

[salarta]

The only reason I liked the idea of Lorna being a mentor on Blue was because she would get to teach and spend time with the teen O5 from shortly before she first met them, especially Jean and Bobby. In the hands of a writer willing to use that history, we could've learned a lot about all the characters from that kind of interaction - aspects of their personalities they grew out of, stories that were never told until that day, etc.

I'm not nearly as interested if it's a random group of younger mutants. Maybe how it's done would appeal to me. She could also still tell stories about things that happened when she was younger, but it loses a lot of its value without the mutual insight to be gained if it had been the teen O5. With the teen O5, it would've been "Here's a side of you that I knew, you're capable of this." With random younger mutants, it's just "Stay a while and listen! /Deckard Cain"

To put it another way, I'd be open to it. But a lot depends on how it's done.

Personally, at this point I think she both needs and deserves a solo book more than anything. She needs Marvel's writers and editors to start seeing more of her value, and a solo is the best chance of that happening. And after seeing Marvel give Lockjaw a 4-issue mini with sales in the mid/low 10ks, and keep Scarlet Witch going for 20 issues with heavy promo despite what they'd call low sales since #2, I don't think there's any legit argument against "viability" of a Polaris solo anymore. If they can do it for Lockjaw and for SW under those conditions, they can do it for Lorna.

[Heroine Addict]

Salarta, I believe you said you became a fan of Polaris about 8 years ago, or so - WHY? What was it that Marvel did, that made you get into the character, and become so passionate about her?

Same goes for the rest, when & why, did you come to love Lorna? What was it that made you take notice, then draw you in, and how do you think Marvel could recapture it?

Please try to focus on what they've done right, as opposed to what so often gets hashed over here, which is what they've subjectively done wrong.

[jmc247]

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Any thoughts on Lorna mentoring/teaching a younger group of students? It's a role she just started to take on in Blue. Could be an interesting new path.

Fans do have an image now of what headmistress Lorna might look like, though more of a peak in Blue then anything else. And, of course live action as well.

Her positioning on the new cover doesn't exactly scream, getting ready for a run on mainline Uncanny. My suspicion is that anyone on the coming Uncanny title will have to have to be either a usual suspect or have their claws (or in Betsy's case sword) removed. The main Uncanny title is really going to be Xavier's ideals to their xenth (the ideals he himself didn't often live up to) vs everything else as a sort of big reaction to the revolutionary Scott era and while I am sure some would gladly see Lorna take up such a role to be on a higher profile title then she has been on in a decade... it is my very solid belief Lorna losing her worldview, personality and attributes that set her apart from the usual suspects to be on a somewhat higher profile title for a year or so (as happened in RAFOTSE) would not be in the characters long term interest.

The question is what role can Lorna play in the current X-Men universe, I have my ideas, though they flow through the character and her history and would follow the outlines of the actual Marvel.com summary of her complex and conflicted relationship to the mutant community and fighting for the rights of mutants quite well. They might allow it on a side title, but not the main one in the current era.

It was after all the Lorna who wanted to make the world a better place for mutants, dealt with legacy issues, and didn't care what anyone else thought about what she believed was right that drew me to the character.

[AbnormallyNormal]

I just want her to be with a squad that is a bit more "rough around the edges" as it were

However I feel like that's already captured by the Weapon X book

BLUE was an attempt to kind of make one of the main team books into something approaching that style but not quite hitting it

I agree that it depends on what her students are like, why she's teaching them, etc

It could be good. Emma Frost's character is known as a teacher, of course she gets a lot of crap due to her "failure rate" of students getting massacred

No clue if Lorna would fare better or not

I hope Lorna isn't the only like... "adult" if she is on such a book, and she has some peers around or rivals as well, or a love interest

The main thing is I think conventional comic readers still view Lorna as basically "The half nuts gf of Havok who has same powers as Magneto"

They need to get to work on showing she isn't "half nuts" or if they want to keep that aspect of her character, portray it in a more nuanced sensitive way. Not sure most writers are capable.

They're doing a decent job detaching her (while still being respectful) from Havok. If Havok ends up becoming romantic with Dazzler that would speed this along.

The same powers thing with Magneto also should be worked on. salarta has given some ideas on how to differentiate Lorna's mutation from her dad's. This might sound "technical" or "pointless" to some but I think it's very crucial. Even X-23, Daken, Sabretooth, are functionally different from Wolverine in the ways they operate, despite being thought of as highly similar characters. Same thing with some telepaths and telekinetics, their distinct personalities and life experiences can shape the way they apply their mutation.

Those are the big 3 points I think any next book with Lorna in it should be tackling to try to get away from the stereotype of her that is still largely out there.

My main concern with her as a 'teacher' is it might seem too stable too domestic. I want her more wild and free and engaged in combat.

I gave a list of potential female friends for her earlier and those are who I think she could be good with on a book. Students it just depends as I said earlier

[Heroine Addict]

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I like how Marquez gave her a lil' bit of a mischievous smirk. I think it subtlety conveys the oft indignant attitude she's sorta known for, and that sets her apart, quite nicely.

[Heroine Addict]

... My main concern with her as a 'teacher' is it might seem too stable too domestic. I want her more wild and free and engaged in combat. ...

I believe both, could be doable, though. Think the end of Gifted S1's last episode, where she lured Andy+ away, and her mentorship not being officially sanctioned by the X-men's school (of thought). She'd be more of a maverick, in a sense, with her guidance being more revolutionary in style.

[jmc247]

I believe both, could be doable, though. Think the end of Gifted S1's last episode, where she lured Andy+ away, and her mentorship not being officially sanctioned by the X-men's school (of thought). She'd be more of a maverick, in a sense, with her guidance being more revolutionary in style.

I think something like that could certainly work. Its clear the new editorial regime is fine with different points of view though unlike the past certainly not under the X-Men banner.

My feeling about X-Men Red itself new editorial isn't happy with the concept Jean put out of a mutant nation of any sort under the X-Men banner and I think Jean’s dream will sort of disappear back to something much more concrete old line Xavier.

I feel like they might be willing to create a title not under the X-Men banner with some of the characters not designated for the core title or titles that treads in different waters next year, but it depends on the writer and the pitch. Give it more then generic super heroics fighting for all and some good scripts and it would be remembered and allow the character to build from it.

I don’t have a problem with Lorna interacting with characters she probably will never see again if there is some greater political goal in mind that is memorable and can lead to something more down the road otherwise one runs into the 90s X-Factor probably where the only enduring relationship that came out of it that serviced the character in the long run was Pietro and only then because the Magneto connection was slowly re-established.

[jmc247]

Kelly Thompson: Well...I mean there’s no way that whole thing is the “line up.” That would be impossible (and our artists would be dead or trying to murder us or both!)

https://mobile.twitter.com/79SemiFin...65365585088513

Not all characters on cover to be in crossover. I think Lorna is fairly safe to appear perhaps with Angel if it’s at all Poccy related, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on a bigger role then she had in the 90s x-events or Phoenix Resurrection.

Also I noticed.

http://toyhaven.blogspot.com/2018/08...rl-12.html?m=1

[salarta]

Salarta, I believe you said you became a fan of Polaris about 8 years ago, or so - WHY? What was it that Marvel did, that made you get into the character, and become so passionate about her?

Same goes for the rest, when & why, did you come to love Lorna? What was it that made you take notice, then draw you in, and how do you think Marvel could recapture it?

Please try to focus on what they've done right, as opposed to what so often gets hashed over here, which is what they've subjectively done wrong.

I know the main reason for asking this is not liking my complaints, but it's a question worth answering, so I'm going to answer. Keep in mind: memory is tricky. I'm working with nine years of discussion and having just cleared my head of one interpretation of her. What I think were my reasons looking back may be different from what I said they were way back when I discovered her.

I became a fan of Lorna in 2009 - so, 9 years ago now. I've said this before, but I discovered her through the Marvel wikia page for her. This is a page from around that time. This is the context by which I got to know her - no origin story, no leading All-New X-Factor, stuck in space. I saw a couple things through the wikia article.

First and foremost, I saw her history of mind control and trauma. I saw how she went from controlled by the Shi'ar, to possessed by Malice, to Zaladane stealing her powers, to surviving the Genoshan massacre but getting severe PTSD out of it, to losing her powers, to getting turned into Pestilence. She's a character who's suffered through a hell of a lot. Which then got me thinking: why haven't I ever once heard of her? I'm in my 20s, I've known X-Men exist since I was a child, why is it that I'm only now learning about this character who's gone through so much?

That's the very first thing I saw. That's what got me to go out and buy random comics with her on the cover, to get to know her better. Then I read things like Jeff Parker's Exiles, through which I saw how Lorna could be playful and fun too, and how the Magnus family can bring about great enjoyable stories with her.

But it wasn't "she's Magneto's daughter" or "she's Havok's girlfriend" or even "she's a sister to Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver" that drew me to Lorna. It was Lorna's own, actual history that got me to become a fan of her - and made me care about any X-Men/Marvel comics in any meaningful way. Which is why you see me so outraged by Blue. I want to see this storied character who's tough enough to have gone through all she has and still keep fighting, still care deeply about mutants and mutant rights, and still have fun and playful moments within that. Instead, Marvel keeps putting out these stories about how she can be used as a tool to redeem her ex-boyfriend Havok, or how her father Magneto's reputation precedes her. I want to see Lorna, and Marvel won't let me.

The common refrain of most potential story ideas I've said comes back to what she's been through. Lorna leading a new Genosha or taking part in Axis. Lorna confronting Wanda about having her powers taken from her on M-Day. Lorna as the center of an X-Men or Marvel wide event about how characters like her have been neglected by their colleagues, and how that neglect can affect a person. I don't expect Marvel to do exactly what I want, but after 9 years, I don't think I'm asking for a lot to want to see Lorna's history and value really explored for once on her 50th anniversary.