Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2018

[spirit2011]

Emma Frost insults everyone. No big deal there. Actually Jean by the time she died had moved on from her relationship with Scott and actually told him to live. And Cyclops is dead, but she said goodbye to him.

Ghost Jean had no real problems with Emma and Emma had no real problems with ghost Jean.

That is not what I read. Ghost Jean didn't liked Jean, but it doesn't matter since it wasn't Jean at all.

also HCT was a future Jean.

Emma couldn't live without insulting Jean, just because she is snark with everyone doesn't mean jean wouldn't resent her.

Here is why I would not mind Emma and Jean redefining their adult relationship. This is the 21st century. Cyclops was emotionally damaged. He left Jean. He ended up not being able to forgive Emma for her possibly Phoenix induced affair with Namor. Both women had broken relationships with a DEAD man. While they don't have to be friends, there's just no reason for either of them to have a beef with each other.

Not all women have to be friends. Cyclops did his crap with Jean, but Emma went straight for it to hurt Jean.
Impossible come over this.

Jean Grey is far more concerned about making amends for D'Bari that holding any sort of grudge with Emma Frost. In fact when Emma was shot by Esme, after Jean had flipped out on Emma and basically ripped her apart, Jean put Emma back together, quite literally.

Jean is a human being, she already asked forgiveness on D'bari. Alright she can atill hold grudges with Emma.
I don't know why you treating what Emma did as it was a punch on the face, when it was very psychopath thing to do.

Obviously Jean isn't some pretty, archetypical scorned woman. It's interesting to see both women now as leaders, Jean is leading her own group of X-Men and Emma is now the Black King of the Hellfire Club. Xavier had a complex friends/adversarial relationship with Magneto, there's no reason why Emma and Jean cannot. We saw something of that in Jean Grey with Ghost Jean and Emma Frost.

Magneto and Xavier are completely different from Emma/Jean.

you need arguments that make sense

Regarding Emma. They did the "working relationship/civility" or at least, Jean did. While Jean was being civil and professional, Emma was having a telepathic affair with Jean's husband.

What will be Emma's next mean girl trick? And why would any Jean fan want to find out?

Just wait for some writer treat Emma better because they think she is the underdog and screw over Jean again.
i just saying some Jean fans never learn their lesson with it comes to Emma and that guy

TL, DR; I don't know any woman that want to be friends with the woman that their boyfriend cheated or even the husband's ex.
That is realistic and I don't want to see Jean being a doorknob. I had enought of that boring stereotype

[DavidMunroe]

Right. It's mystifying that Emma's complicity in the corruption and emotional mutilation/torture of the Phoenix/Jean Grey is almost always overlooked, and then Emma adds insult to injury by fornicating with Jean's husband whilst wearing the same outfit that Jean experienced one of her worst moments in because of Emma's own machinations. That's disgusting, cruel and foul and Jean shouldn't have be congenial or accomodating of Emma so that Emma's transgressions can be whitewashed and/or absolved. And it's weird that Jean always has to be the one that accepts and forgives even when the situation should warrant a fiery emotional response and/or vendetta. It makes her come across as a Mary Sue when she's not allowed to be angry or vindictive about things that justifiably warrant her anger.

[Havok83]

It'll be closer - TAS substituted some characters in order to only use the regular cast - so Beast replaced Nightcrawler, Rogue replaced Colossus, Jubilee replaced Kitty.

Beast didn’t replace Kurt as he was in the DPS

[PhoenixStudies]

That is not what I read. Ghost Jean didn't liked Jean, but it doesn't matter since it wasn't Jean at all.

also HCT was a future Jean.

Emma couldn't live without insulting Jean, just because she is snark with everyone doesn't mean jean wouldn't resent her.



Not all women have to be friends. Cyclops did his crap with Jean, but Emma went straight for it to hurt Jean.
Impossible come over this.


Jean is a human being, she already asked forgiveness on D'bari. Alright she can atill hold grudges with Emma.
I don't know why you treating what Emma did as it was a punch on the face, when it was very psychopath thing to do.


Magneto and Xavier are completely different from Emma/Jean.

you need arguments that make sense



Just wait for some writer treat Emma better because they think she is the underdog and screw over Jean again.
i just saying some Jean fans never learn their lesson with it comes to Emma and that guy

TL, DR; I don't know any woman that want to be friends with the woman that their boyfriend cheated or even the husband's ex.
That is realistic and I don't want to see Jean being a doorknob. I had enought of that boring stereotype

HCT wasn't a future Jean. It was the current Jean that died in New #150 and awoke/hatched in the future. When she cut away that reality, it says "this is now" and shows how White Phoenix-Jean was influencing the present when Scott and Emma were making out over her grave.

Saying HCT was about a future Jean is like saying the Jean in Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix was a future Jean.

In both stories, the real and current Jean goes into the future/a possible future. Jean even references HCT in Phoenix Endsong. She mentions the bug people and paraphrases herself.

The Phoenix allowed Jean to die in New #150 so that she could go into the future to do her Phoenix Work and disinfect Sublime. Otherwise, it would have just resurrected her after Magneto killed her.

Also, I believe Ghost Jean was the real Jean as well, just before she was put in the Phoenix Egg in New Mexico, or her psychic projection from within the Egg.

Resurrected Jean knew Teen Jean at the end of Jean Grey #11 because she had been Ghost Jean, imho.

[Havok83]

The Phoenix allowed Jean to die in New #150 so that she could go into the future to do her Phoenix Work and disinfect Sublime. Otherwise, it would have just resurrected her after Magneto killed her.

which doesnt make sense to me. Why wait 150 years to resurrect her in the future to disinfect Sublime instead of doing it in present day?

[Phoenixx9]

which doesnt make sense to me. Why wait 150 years to resurrect her in the future to disinfect Sublime instead of doing it in present day?

I also thought that when reading that story.

It made me think that we were going to have to wait 150 years for Marvel to bring back the real Jean Grey!! Luckily, it was "only" 13.5 long, terrible years.

[ariwl1]

Planet X through HCT requires a heavy amount of suspension of disbelief, especially where the Phoenix is concerned. The closest you're going to get to a satisfying answer is that the Phoenix did as it wanted to because quasi-omnipotent beings be like that.

[Black Queen]

What is the point of this? It is not for Emma fans to justify a writers or editors decisions. You are personalising it way too much. Jean Grey is my face character, by far. Recent posts have talked as if the only thing Emma did against Jean was her osychic affair with Scott. There is so much more complicTed history between them. In Morrisons run I likedthe dynamic between Jean and Emma. But Emmas motivation was to annoy Jean. When Jean asked her why she was such a bitch ‘breeding darlingk. Emma was out to wind Jean ip. She states that she got involved in Scott and Jeans life to get at Jean and the last thing she exoected was to fall in lobe with Scott. This was the first time in Mortisons run I sctually felt fir Emma. I enjoyed her bitchy portrayal to an extent, though I think Wheedon did much better with her, and her telationship with Scott. Emma targetted Scott was he was vulnersble, lost and low. She fell in love with a damaged man, never the basis for a healthy relationship, but that doesnt negate their feelings. In terms of Scott, people “falling” for their therapists is not uncommon, and something therapists have to be careful about. I would consider less whether Scott was truky in love with Emma, or at keast state that she loved him more than hec loved her.

Jean was trying to support Scott my ketting him take his time, gettinh him to open up when he needed to. Hecwanted Jean to read his mind so she could understand, but Jean wanted him to take responsibility and open up. I take mo issues with Scott and Jean breaking up over their traumas. Jean had more of a therapists ethical approach than Emma, and maybe Jean could have been more of a loving partner and supportive.

My partner has accused me of being to “social worky” with him at times, instead of just being there for him, and I def see his point!! I see parallels here. But, no way, could Jean and Emma ever be friends. Many enemies have truly reformed and become xnen. But Emma was instrumental in getting Mastermind to seduce Phoenix / Jean asPhodnix. In Whednon’s run i loved that Kitty akwats called Emma out. They worked together, but Emma said she dudny fukky trust herself, and wanted kitty to be able to stop her if needed. I see Emma and Jeans “workingl rekationship more like Kitty and Emma’s, if they needed to be together fir something, but friebds? Never.

Jean has been burned by Emma too many times, as she saud recentky, compassion is not thecsame as weakness. I dont see how Jean could ever trust Emma personally again. Professionally, yes, personally, no way!

You say all of this to justify the whole scenario. A few pages back a Jean hater could come in here and bragging that Jean was a saint mary sue to our face but we have never done that to them b4.That she was better dead,a no dept character thats why I asked them because they were the ones who said it

[Portsian]

Sorry I am not sure I understand your last post, what you are trying to say.

And I am not saying it all to “justify” a “whole scenario”. What whole scenario? I am using historical stories to back up my thoughts, rather than focusing on one part. We can all (as 8 have done) look at The complicated history to justify our views.

I dont see why people would want Jean and Emma to be friends, why should Jean forgive but not fiorget? Why does it have to be Jean that makes the effort? I dont want a perfect Jean, i want a Jean that reacts like everyone else.

It is unrealistic for anyone to become friends with snyine who has hurt you and your relationships so much. Jean’s reaction whenn she found out about the osychic affair i felt was an angry one. Did she deal with it in the best way? No there were aklegations of her mind raping Emma, cutting through to the core of Emma’s personality and why she is like she is. People felt sorry for Emma that Jean had gone so far.

I think any friendship that writers develop even in good hands, would just be contrived and ignore basic human psychological maje up. I am not saying Emma is “bad”, but any relationship wouls just be on a professional level. And Emma is a bad guy and re involved with Hellfire Club. It aint gonna happen!

Anyway, jusr read Red 10.

Good issue, just wished there was more action, the last issue better be worth the slow build, much as I have loved it. I want Jean staying true to her ideals, but I akso want a satisfying conclusion to Jean vs Cassandra Nova! An issue with lots of build up again.

When is issue 11 out?

[Black Queen]

Sorry I am not sure I understand your last post, what you are trying to say.

And I am not saying it all to “justify” a “whole scenario”. What whole scenario? I am using historical stories to back up my thoughts, rather than focusing on one part. We can all (as 8 have done) look at The complicated history to justify our views.

I dont see why people would want Jean and Emma to be friends, why should Jean forgive but not fiorget? Why does it have to be Jean that makes the effort? I dont want a perfect Jean, i want a Jean that reacts like everyone else.

It is unrealistic for anyone to become friends with snyine who has hurt you and your relationships so much. Jean’s reaction whenn she found out about the osychic affair i felt was an angry one. Did she deal with it in the best way? No there were aklegations of her mind raping Emma, cutting through to the core of Emma’s personality and why she is like she is. People felt sorry for Emma that Jean had gone so far.

I think any friendship that writers develop even in good hands, would just be contrived and ignore basic human psychological maje up. I am not saying Emma is “bad”, but any relationship wouls just be on a professional level. And Emma is a bad guy and re involved with Hellfire Club. It aint gonna happen!

Anyway, jusr read Red 10.

Good issue, just wished there was more action, the last issue better be worth the slow build, much as I have loved it. I want Jean staying true to her ideals, but I akso want a satisfying conclusion to Jean vs Cassandra Nova! An issue with lots of build up again.

When is issue 11 out?

December 12

[Portsian]

Thank you!

[MarvelMaster616]

Just read X-men Red #10. If you're a Jean fan in any capacity, this issue will put a big smile on your face. She doesn't just show why she's one of the most respect X-men characters of all time. She shows that she deserves a larger place in the greater Marvel universe.

[mike7171]

Just red X-Men #10. I guess the smackdown i am looking forward to is not gonna happen, and I doubt #11 will deliver what i want either. Sigh.

[Portsian]

Just read X-men Red #10. If you're a Jean fan in any capacity, this issue will put a big smile on your face. She doesn't just show why she's one of the most respect X-men characters of all time. She shows that she deserves a larger place in the greater Marvel universe.

Hi totally agree, fantastic to see how much respect Other heroes have for Jean in the greater Marvel universe. Jean shone in everything. I think sge is learning to accept support as team leader rather than trying to be this paragon of leadership, from hervown team and others. Jean’s leadership is wonderful to see in an age of anti heroes being cool etc, she doesn’t need attitude to command respect.

I liked that Gabby again gave her pause for thought, helped her to have a different perpective. Jean LISTENS to her team, even if some of them are not guven much air time.

But can I ask what do you think of the pacing? It’s still the best xbook by far, and I’ve loved each issue.

I do worry that Jean will be perceived as being pacifistic, but that is akso what makes her so faulous, looking at other ways of resolving conflict. But on ongoing book on diplomacy would probably not last very long or be popular!!

For the build up over last 10 books I want to see some kind of showdown between her and Cassandra Nova, to feel a sense of satisfaction for myself! Face to face confrontation that is just more than a war of words. Cassandra does feel like Jean’s Magneto in some respects. I need good dialogue and action. With so many people involved in the finake I hope we get decent scene time for everyone, but the denoument needs to be Jean and Cassandra.

Anyone know (I am hoping) whether issue 11 will be plus sized?

[Black Queen]

Hi totally agree, fantastic to see how much respect Other heroes have for Jean in the greater Marvel universe. Jean shone in everything. I think sge is learning to accept support as team leader rather than trying to be this paragon of leadership, from hervown team and others. Jean’s leadership is wonderful to see in an age of anti heroes being cool etc, she doesn’t need attitude to command respect.

I liked that Gabby again gave her pause for thought, helped her to have a different perpective. Jean LISTENS to her team, even if some of them are not guven much air time.

But can I ask what do you think of the pacing? It’s still the best xbook by far, and I’ve loved each issue.

I do worry that Jean will be perceived as being pacifistic, but that is akso what makes her so faulous, looking at other ways of resolving conflict. But on ongoing book on diplomacy would probably not last very long or be popular!!

For the build up over last 10 books I want to see some kind of showdown between her and Cassandra Nova, to feel a sense of satisfaction for myself! Face to face confrontation that is just more than a war of words. Cassandra does feel like Jean’s Magneto in some respects. I need good dialogue and action. With so many people involved in the finake I hope we get decent scene time for everyone, but the denoument needs to be Jean and Cassandra.

Anyone know (I am hoping) whether issue 11 will be plus sized?

I'm ok with Jean interacting with the Avengers but not sure about others here would approve of that cause you know the whole thing with AVX