Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2018

[5cents]

I’m okay with this team. Yeah two TPs but I assume Psylocke (I assume she still has her ninja skills?) and Nightcrawler will be hand to hand fighters. But for this 10 issue arc I assume there isn’t a set team yet. Not till the relaunch.

[Grey]

Why was the dark Phoenix thread locked? I saw it went off topic but I wish they could have just reprimanded the offenders. There’s a long time to go to not have a place to talk about the movie. I was finally able to start coming to the jean thread since all the spoilers and news were in that thread. =(

Laura also seems to be missing the X.
And the rest of her costume.
And herself.
I think this is the first cover I’ve seen without her.

Lols!!

[Disciple of Redd]

I say good. This a comic book section anyway. They can take it to the film section.

[richalex]

I'm curious what the rest of you think? I've been thinking about this lately, especially since she's suppressed the Phoenix and has been wanting to realize her potential.

As we know, Jean as Phoenix, is her ultimate potential. So the things we've seen Jean do with the Force, etc, means she can as well. However do you think she can do everything the Force can?

I've been thinking that Jean as Green Phoenix is Thor level of power, where she currently is. Red Phoenix is her pushing herself to an extreme level, but White Phoenix of the crown is beyond her level of power and isn't part of that potential. That's totally just The Phoenix Force's abilities, which are unlimited. Cutting out timeliness etc, I think that's a bit too much.

What do the rest of you think?

[Havok83]

I'm curious what the rest of you think? I've been thinking about this lately, especially since she's suppressed the Phoenix and has been wanting to realize her potential.

As we know, Jean as Phoenix, is her ultimate potential. So the things we've seen Jean do with the Force, etc, means she can as well. However do you think she can do everything the Force can?

I've been thinking that Jean as Green Phoenix is Thor level of power, where she currently is. Red Phoenix is her pushing herself to an extreme level, but White Phoenix of the crown is beyond her level of power and isn't part of that potential. That's totally just The Phoenix Force's abilities, which are unlimited. Cutting out timeliness etc, I think that's a bit too much.

What do the rest of you think?

Teen Jean showed potential to be as powerful as Green Phoenix Jean. That power however came in spurts as she required psi energy to boost her and that’s not something she could sustain. Adult Jean theoretically should be more powerful as she has the skill and experience so it will be interesting to see how she pushes herself further than her younger self

[richalex]

Teen Jean showed potential to be as powerful as Green Phoenix Jean. That power however came in spurts as she required psi energy to boost her and that’s not something she could sustain. Adult Jean theoretically should be more powerful as she has the skill and experience so it will be interesting to see how she pushes herself further than her younger self

Like I totally feel green/red Phoenix should totally be within her grasp of powers. Green being like I said Thor level. Red being she just doesn't care, and extreme level. But her cutting out timelines, fixing, burning away what doesn't work in reality, that's totally a Phoenix Force level of power, that she can only access if she's using the Phoenix Force. But that is never a level she could obtain on her own.

[Marvelboy1974]

I really like the Finch variant. It's probably my favorite of the ones I've seen. At least Jean's shoulder pads don't look like round baking pans. The other variant with Jean front and center sporting orange energy would have been perfect except for the giant shoulder armor. I like the team, It's interesting that Bishop is sporting a very Cyclops-Esque uniform with the X insignia on his pectoral. I can't wait to read the end of X-men Red and move on to the next adventure!

[Marvelboy1974]

Guys I have a question: can anyone create an appreciation thread? I was looking for one on the Shiar Imperial Guard and could not find anything.

[Dam]

Finally a cover where everyone looks great, IMO! Love the expressions and hair on the ladies, and Jean's costume looks decent, lol. How many variants are there already, though? Is there ever too much in these circumstances?

I was thinking the same. It's the first time I see Jean's costume and I like it

[Dam]

Everyone but Jubilee in that poorly outdated costume. I like the way Finch draws Jean's costume but she's too skinny here IMO. Iceman too. Kurt seems to be missing the X on his costume

Lol I didn't notice there's not X in Kurt's costume

[Havok83]

Guys I have a question: can anyone create an appreciation thread? I was looking for one on the Shiar Imperial Guard and could not find anything.

Sure. There's no restrictions on who can make one

[Marvelboy1974]

Sure. There's no restrictions on who can make one

Thank you, friend!

[Portsian]

Te Jean and Phoenix, i see it in several possibly contradictory ways, but if they are contradictory i have made my peace with it.

For me, Jean first and foremost, is omega level telekinetic, (is she also an omega level telepath?). The initial idea that Phoenix is Jean’s ultimate potential as a psi is what i grew up with, and stays in my heart.

Then the Phoenix Force came along, yuk. But the Force and Jean, for whatever reason, have a special connection, and are intimately linked. The Phoeniix 5 were possessed by the Phoenix Force, Jean was never possessed. Jean has a bond closer to Phoenix than anyone else. But Phoenix’s abilities along with Jean’s, together gives them a different power set than they have individually. The Force is not telekinetic, the Force does evolutions work, or does things involving life and death on a universal scale. I think Jean is more powerful than Phoenix as a telepath and teleknetic, Jean can do so many feats, that Phoenix just could not do. Their power sets compliment each other. Phoenix can do “bigger” things than Jean, but i see it as just doing different things. What does bigger and more powerful mean? It’s like the useless comparisons between Storm and Je an in who is more powerful. How can you compare when he power sets are so diffferent? Comparing Jean and Rachel, yes, but its like comparing Jean and Jubilee, it is pointless.

It reminds me of different ways of testing for Intelligence, either between humans, but more about how we are understanding animal intelligence from a different persoective to see how intelligent some animals are. Like with Octopus, it’s such a different kind of intelligence that for a long time we didn’t see them as being intelligent. But now many scientists are realising how incedibly intelligent many birds, reptiles and some invertibrate species are.

Phoenix (with Jean) can do more than Phoenix on her own, and Jean with Phoenix, can do more than Jean in her own. But withiot Phoenix Jean is still uber powerful and is exploring this. Also Jeans abilities esp in Red, as so much more subtie and intr ucate than Phoenix has ever been.

That’s why i really dont see any point in ongoing debate about Jean being stronger, or not, than Phoenix. When have we ever seen Phoenix, really, without Jeans influence? . As a Phoenix Force, there is no finesse, no individual powers.

The only bit oof g AvX i liked was the bit where Cyclops goes to the moon, and creates Phoenix Jean out of moon dust, and she states that Phoenix in the end isn t about power, but perspective.

If Jean and Phoenix do have same power levels, their perspectives are so different, Jean’s is human and small scale, Phoenix is much wider. So the bugger perspective will be viewed by most as more powerful, cos she is “doing” more, she can “see” more that needs doing with her larger view point. I think Jean if she had this view, could do more, but her perspective is more grounded in being human and STAYING human, so her feats will be seen as less. But I’d argue the potentual is there. And she has learned from Phoenix / being the Phoenix.

End of ramble.

[PsychoEFrost]

Te Jean and Phoenix, i see it in several possibly contradictory ways, but if they are contradictory i have made my peace with it.

For me, Jean first and foremost, is omega level telekinetic, (is she also an omega level telepath?). The initial idea that Phoenix is Jean’s ultimate potential as a psi is what i grew up with, and stays in my heart.

Then the Phoenix Force came along, yuk. But the Force and Jean, for whatever reason, have a special connection, and are intimately linked. The Phoeniix 5 were possessed by the Phoenix Force, Jean was never possessed. Jean has a bond closer to Phoenix than anyone else. But Phoenix’s abilities along with Jean’s, together gives them a different power set than they have individually. The Force is not telekinetic, the Force does evolutions work, or does things involving life and death on a universal scale. I think Jean is more powerful than Phoenix as a telepath and teleknetic, Jean can do so many feats, that Phoenix just could not do. Their power sets compliment each other. Phoenix can do “bigger” things than Jean, but i see it as just doing different things. What does bigger and more powerful mean? It’s like the useless comparisons between Storm and Je an in who is more powerful. How can you compare when he power sets are so diffferent? Comparing Jean and Rachel, yes, but its like comparing Jean and Jubilee, it is pointless.

It reminds me of different ways of testing for Intelligence, either between humans, but more about how we are understanding animal intelligence from a different persoective to see how intelligent some animals are. Like with Octopus, it’s such a different kind of intelligence that for a long time we didn’t see them as being intelligent. But now many scientists are realising how incedibly intelligent many birds, reptiles and some invertibrate species are.

Phoenix (with Jean) can do more than Phoenix on her own, and Jean with Phoenix, can do more than Jean in her own. But withiot Phoenix Jean is still uber powerful and is exploring this. Also Jeans abilities esp in Red, as so much more subtie and intr ucate than Phoenix has ever been.

That’s why i really dont see any point in ongoing debate about Jean being stronger, or not, than Phoenix. When have we ever seen Phoenix, really, without Jeans influence? . As a Phoenix Force, there is no finesse, no individual powers.

The only bit oof g AvX i liked was the bit where Cyclops goes to the moon, and creates Phoenix Jean out of moon dust, and she states that Phoenix in the end isn t about power, but perspective.

If Jean and Phoenix do have same power levels, their perspectives are so different, Jean’s is human and small scale, Phoenix is much wider. So the bugger perspective will be viewed by most as more powerful, cos she is “doing” more, she can “see” more that needs doing with her larger view point. I think Jean if she had this view, could do more, but her perspective is more grounded in being human and STAYING human, so her feats will be seen as less. But I’d argue the potentual is there. And she has learned from Phoenix / being the Phoenix.

End of ramble.

Not possessed? The D'Bari galaxy might have a few issues with that statement. She was also possessed on account of technically not really being alive during Endsong (though she regained some control fairly quickly).

Other than that, the current canon for the Phoenix isn't that terrible. Yeah, it got thrown around a few more times than needed, but the canon is consistent over the last ten years, which is more than other cosmic objects.

The major points are that A) It's a cosmic force that has existed since the beginning of time B) It's on the Celestial scale of power C) Jean is her favorite host due to her seeing beyond the bounds of life and death and her high empathic abilities and D) She lives through the emotions of her host, and therefore her power can override the will of the host in order to facilitate this need to live through emotion and E) She prefers Omega level telepaths as hosts but will bond with weaker beings during emergencies.

Past those five points is just subject to the will of the writer. Some good, some bad.

But the Phoenix being her ultimate form is from a time long since past, and pushed even further away by Jean deciding to take her own future into her own hands without the bird. It may be a positive step for the character.

[ThePhoenix]

Like I totally feel green/red Phoenix should totally be within her grasp of powers. Green being like I said Thor level. Red being she just doesn't care, and extreme level. But her cutting out timelines, fixing, burning away what doesn't work in reality, that's totally a Phoenix Force level of power, that she can only access if she's using the Phoenix Force. But that is never a level she could obtain on her own.

Green Phoenix Jean is way more powerful than Thor... Both Jean and Rachel as hosts have way better feats than Thor. Also here is a list from other hosts that don't hold a candle to Jean:
1. The whole Avengers squad was needed (with the Scarlet Witch being the decisive factor) to defeat Phoenix Namor. Namor with just a fragment of the Force. Phoenix Namor broke Red Hulk's hand like nothing and took quick care of Thor.
2. Phoenix Emma with a fragment stomped Thor.
3. Phoenix Cyclops with a fragment also took qiuck care of Thor.
4. Old Phoenix Wolvie can fight against Rune King Thor (who is way more power than his younger self) and the book said that he grew his Phoenix Avatar/aura to at leaset Galaxy size in their fight.
5. Dark Phoenix Cyclops thought of everybody so small...
6. (White) Phoenix Cyclops was the only being to hurt God Doom who was powered by the Beyonders and Molecule Man.
And not to mention that Rachel stomped Galactus. Dark Phoenix Jean seems more powerful because she uses her power differently almost without blocks. White Phoenix of the Crown can hold Universes at her hands... Eevn a fragment of the Phoenix can make somebody really OP.