Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2018

[Majesty]

Does that mean she's getting a spin-off comic where we see her living out "that life" for herself?

[Undergrizer]

Does that mean she's getting a spin-off comic where we see her living out "that life" for herself?

About young Jean - I hope for spin off about her where she became a new Phoenix, where she alone traveled in the universe and trying use Force for good (in standard green suit of Light Phoenix). But sometimes, Phoenix take over temporary control on her body (in latest Dark Phoenix suit). It can be powerful space opera with some elements of "The Fifth Element".

[Conor]

It happened. I dont have a problem with it being acknowledged

I just feel like, in the modern-age, the convoluted cocoon retcon is unneeded. The soft retcon at the beginning of Generations, where it states that adult Jean was “possessed” by the PF should be further developed upon and definitively established. Jean becoming Phoenix in UXM #101 was a HUGE turning point for her character in terms of empowerment, not just power-wise, but as a female character in the late 70s. The DPS is inarguably, her most iconic storyline to date. And Marvel still wanna attribute all that to, as Jeen states, a “fake”?? Naaah, Classic X-Men #8 where Claremont establishes Jean and Phoenix as a combined being and shared consciousness will always remain Gospel to me in terms of Jean’s position as Phoenix from UXM 101 - 137.

[5cents]

We have talked about Jean reaching Phoenix level or at least getting close to Phoenix level powers on her own. I’m hoping this is a glimpse of it.

PS I like the sound effects wha-boooom

[5cents]

Good to know Jean can pull herself back together. She will need it against creators who want to get rid of her

[Harpsikord]

I just feel like, in the modern-age, the convoluted cocoon retcon is unneeded. The soft retcon at the beginning of Generations, where it states that adult Jean was “possessed” by the PF should be further developed upon and definitively established. Jean becoming Phoenix in UXM #101 was a HUGE turning point for her character in terms of empowerment, not just power-wise, but as a female character in the late 70s. The DPS is inarguably, her most iconic storyline to date. And Marvel still wanna attribute all that to, as Jeen states, a “fake”?? Naaah, Classic X-Men #8 where Claremont establishes Jean and Phoenix as a combined being and shared consciousness will always remain Gospel to me in terms of Jean’s position as Phoenix from UXM 101 - 137.

The thing about this is that it isn't really all that complicated. Jean made a deal with the Phoenix to save the people that she cared about and so that she wouldn't die, so the Phoenix put Jean in a healing cocoon in order for her to recuperate. At the same time, impressed with Jean's compassion, Phoenix chose to impersonate her and live the life of a human for a little while: it's REALLY not as complicated as you're making it sound. All things considered it's a good thing that Jean Grey didn't eat a star and destroy a whole modern civilization because if she did people would still be harping on her just like they harp on Wanda or Beast for their own genocides. It would be a black stain on the character that she couldn't recover from, and nearly didn't anyway.

Classic X-Men #8 reads like Claremont trying to demand that every single thing that he writes stay canon when it really doesn't work well enough. The Phoenix used Jean's personality as a template, had a part of Jean's soul, and eventually Jean got Phoenix's memories and reconciled with the fact that even if it wasn't her that did the things Dark Phoenix did, it was still a version of her. It gave Jean the clean slate that she needed but also allowed that history to have relevance; it is ultimately what allowed Jean Grey to stay alive for twenty whole years and then when the Phoenix came back, that paired with Quesada's hatred for Jean and comic book marriages had her killed off.

So the best thing for them to do is maintain the retcon, especially in this day and age where Jean has "broken up" with the Phoenix Force. It doesn't seem to me like it really changes anything about the Dark Phoenix saga other than maintaining the integrity of Jean's character, and I would actually argue that the DPS lessens the value of Jean. As powerful as she was as far as her actual powers went, the Dark Phoenix Saga hurt Jean from a character perspective. Here was this massively strong telekinetic and telepath who had literally maintained and saved the entire multiverse by putting the M'Kraan Crystal back together, and she has her agency entirely taken away from her by a weaker telepath and an illusionist. No thank you. Look at how fans felt about Rachel going dark, if DPS happened in the present day people would feel the same way about Jean - but because it was written by Chris Claremont they take it as gospel. Jean might have regained her agency in the end but she spends almost the entire story without it.

If anything made Phoenix cool, it was the original Phoenix saga. Not the Dark Phoenix Saga.

[Narasinha]

I just feel like, in the modern-age, the convoluted cocoon retcon is unneeded.

Marvel still shy from the consequences of the DPS but still want to keep the whole background of the character, including the PS and DPS. So they keep dodging around the whole thing.

[Havok83]

I just feel like, in the modern-age, the convoluted cocoon retcon is unneeded. The soft retcon at the beginning of Generations, where it states that adult Jean was “possessed” by the PF should be further developed upon and definitively established. Jean becoming Phoenix in UXM #101 was a HUGE turning point for her character in terms of empowerment, not just power-wise, but as a female character in the late 70s. The DPS is inarguably, her most iconic storyline to date. And Marvel still wanna attribute all that to, as Jeen states, a “fake”?? Naaah, Classic X-Men #8 where Claremont establishes Jean and Phoenix as a combined being and shared consciousness will always remain Gospel to me in terms of Jean’s position as Phoenix from UXM 101 - 137.

Its really not that convoluted. The only thing off about this scene was Jean not sure how she remembers when that was already rectified in the original retcon. A guess a no-prize answer is that Generations is a result of a recent time travel/cosmic cube experience. It overrode Jean's existing memories as that never happened in her past originally and considering she doesnt know about Kobik, her speculation is valid

[phoenixzero23]

The Coccon retcon is in my opinion the worst retcon in the X-books. It's needlessly convoluted, it denigrates the dark phoenix saga, jean's sacrifice and at the end of the day everybody acts like it didn't happen. people still blame jean (and she herself does) for the broccoli people and everybody acts like she died at the end of the DPS.
the retcon did nothing but complicate things.

[Havok83]

Coccon retcon is in my opinion the worst retcon in the X-books. It's needlessly convoluted, it denigrates the dark phoenix saga, jean's sacrifice and at the end of the day everybody acts like it didn't happen. people still blame jean (and she herself does) for the broccoli people and everybody acts like she died at the end of the DPS.
the retcon did nothing but complicate things.

It is the reason she was brought back alive when she was so it accomplished something well

I personally disagree on it being the worse retcon. Xavier has had a few that have been big WTFs which added nothing such as him secretly being married to Mystique. The retcon surrounding Psylocke's body swapping was more convoluted IMO

[Harpsikord]

I don't understand how Jean being cocooned is complicated at all.

[phoenixzero23]

because there are people who think Jean didn't had any role on the DPS (probably her most iconic story) at all, thanks to this retcon. She could have come back in other way.

[Wiccan]

It is the reason she was brought back alive when she was so it accomplished something well

She was literally called PHOENIX. There were numerous ways for her to be brought back that didn't involve retconning like... 5 years or so of her appearances. They only chose to do it this way cause they didn't want her to be blamed for the broccoli people's death, which wasn't necessary because it was never her fault anyway.

[Harpsikord]

Here's the thing: at the time, there was no other way to get Jean back than to absolve her of the guilt of destroying the D'Bari star stystem. That was what got killed her off in the first place, and so it had to be removed basically entirely for them to bring Jean back. And it worked for twenty years before the Phoenix came back and got Jean killed. Again.

Also, that explanation does nothing to tell me why it's so complicated. At all.

[phoenixzero23]

My fault, complicated maybe the wrong word but i'm just saying there could have been an easier way to do this.