Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2018

[Harpsikord]

There was no followup to that. Bendis left it so that things could get better but the very next thing we saw was the world declaring him as some form of mutant Hitler nullifying any of this. He didnt die a hero in the eyes of the public, which is what is being discussed here, not what you and I know behind the scenes

That's on editorial, but not what the story itself showed us. We had Cyclops uniting mutantkind well into sixteen months later, and as a hero to the world - since he was allowed to board the ark in Secret Wars. Then we had Emma tarnishing his name in IvX (however good that may be), but his funeral still treated him as a hero even among the X-Men who may have not felt that way at the time. Was it ever a big thing to anyone other than the X-Men team and baby Scott that Cyclops was a terrorist? Speaking of Baby Cyclops, he probably more or less redeemed Cyclops' name in the time that he was here. And we damn well know that Jean doesn't think that Scott was a terrorist given the Red Annual and how she approached Black Bolt.

[phoenixzero23]

In a more Jean oriented discussion (and hopeful not shipping related)
What do you guys think is Jean's biggest virtue and what is her biggest flaw?

[ariwl1]

What do you guys think is Jean's biggest virtue and what is her biggest flaw?

I could make the case that they're the same trait: her selflessness/self-sacrificing nature. She thinks of others and will always put herself at risk for the sake of those she cares about. It's an admirable quality, but without enough reason applied behind it can get taken too far to where Jean is unnecessarily self-destructive.

Example: Uncanny X-Men Annual 17 - Jean goes to visit Mastermind who's dying from the Legacy Virus. At the end of the story in his final moments Jean and several X-Men are still in his mind, and if he dies, they die. Jean sends her friends to safety, but she stays with Jason so he won't have to die alone.

Note: Keep in mind - in this story, Jason wanted to make amends to what he did to "Jean" back in the Phoenix saga. This story was running with the interpretation of the retcon that Phoenix!Jean was not the same person as regular Jean. Whether or not this makes sense in the greater continuity is a separate issue. The way this story is written, Jason didn't do anything to the real Jean, and she doesn't let him know, wanting him to get his closure.

So Jean can leave Jason mind if she wants to, but she's all prepared to take the big dirt nap for a guy she barely knows and owes nothing to, but he gets to play hero and throw her out of his mind in the very end.

This popped up in one of the official X-Men novels I read once. Jean had a minor emotional meltdown at Wolverine (everyone was being influenced by Belasco but didn't know it), and she vented about sick she is of trying to be so damn PERFECT for everyone, like if she's not always at her absolute best the X-Men will fall to pieces or something. Once everyone's tempers cool Jean goes back to trying her best to not worry everyone else (and she even realizes she's doing it).

Even in the early X-Men Red issues Jean was going to go help Trinary without a second thought but she cautioned Laura against coming with her.

[WallStreeter]

Jean specifically has been public for sure since Morrison's run. When she gave her big press conference she used her real name, and when a visiting reporter talked to her after that he called her Jean Grey and she corrected him to either Grey-Summers or Summers. I forget which.

After Jean was married she got called Grey, Summers, and Grey-Summers, but I think Grey-Summers was what was used most frequently. When she died in Morrison's run her tombstone read Jean Grey-Summers.

Nobody ever called her Jean Summers or Jean Grey-Summers. Her codename was just Jean Grey for awhile, so even after her marriage to Scott and the Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix where she got the Phoenix codename back, people just called her Jean Grey.

The tombstone read Jean Grey-Summers because they wanted to acknowledge her marriage to Cyclops. Even during the Morrison run people mostly called her Ms. Grey. Once she was Mrs. Summers by the Cuckoos, who otherwise called her Professor Grey.

[Peanutsinspace]

Nobody ever called her Jean Summers or Jean Grey-Summers. Her codename was just Jean Grey for awhile, so even after her marriage to Scott and the Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix where she got the Phoenix codename back, people just called her Jean Grey.

That's not completely true. During Morrison's run there were a few people who called her either Jean Grey-Summers or Mrs. Grey-Summers.

[Digifiend]

Think of her like an actor. She may have legally double barreled her name, but for her public role, she kept her maiden name only. Actresses often marry and keep their maiden name as their stage name, while using their husband's surname in private. Superheroes without secret identities aren't that different.

[SpiderClops]

That's not completely true. During Morrison's run there were a few people who called her either Jean Grey-Summers or Mrs. Grey-Summers.

I mean, it's very easy to see why she was called that in Morrison's run.

[JeisonWolf]

A commission piece of Jean Grey through the ages for Tony Ortega by the talented Alex Garcia!

Really beautiful Jean and all her history.

I like it other than the image of her in that black costume is redundant considering she is wearing it in her kiss with Scott. I think I would have preferred a kiss from their wedding and leave the black costume or kept the kiss and gone with the more iconic green look

Yes, the kiss in PR was very beautiful and the most recent but her kiss of the wedding is more important.

Awesome. Very George Perez.

I thought the same .

[JeisonWolf]

Jean technically is Jean Grey-Summers. Now I don't know it's the same but at lest in her archive of "Marvel future fight" said Real name: Jean Grey-Summers. Alias: Jean Grey. I said that normaly when Jean is marry to Scott she tell herself Jean Summers, Jean Grey-Summers, Mrs. Summers or Mrs. Grey-Summers. I think it was in Morrison's career where she use least Jean Grey-Summers and more just Jean Grey.
She keeps calling Scott her husband, so maybe she is still Jean Grey-Summers but being Scott dead, technically is not necessary to use it unless she wants it that way.

Anyway, I think that what is now called Jean Grey is because first Scott is dead and therefore they are not together anymore. then they want to separate Jean from Scott a bit (at least until he comes back) and if they kept calling her Jean Grey-Summers she could be seen more as Scott's wife or ex-wife and not his own character.

[phoenixzero23]

I was re-reading Jeen's solo and it left me wondering...
If adult Jean could get a chance for a solo what do you think it would be about?

[Portsian]

Ms. Grey,actually.

“Actually” no, you are incorrect. The British Ambassador in the UN called her Ms Grey (when she was running the school she was Jean Grey-Summers). But the reporters on the TV programme we saw throughout Red, which people would have been watching, called her Jean Grey, so to answer the original question the current public definitely know her mainly as Jean Grey and not by any code name. The other super heroes will know her by all 3!

[Portsian]

I think he types on a phone.

As for the whole Phoenix story with Jean, I like to think (as another poster mentioned earlier) that when Jean bonded with the Phoenix Force on the space shuttle, a symbiotic relationship was formed as told in Classic X-men #8. I also like the explanation that Grant Morrison gave that when Jean gets too close to the Phoenix Force, it can replace her. How I see it, is that the boundaries and personality of Jean's mind expands in response to the higher level of power she uses to cope with the tremendous amount of energy she wields. Hence, the "voice" as Cable once said during Revolution.

Then there's the OG cocoon body. As was explained in Classic X-men #8, a spark of life was left to have a second chance as some of Jean's consciousness was bonded with the Phoenix Force and a new body was created. So basically this Jean wasn't Phoenix as this part of her never bonded with the Phoenix. She existed in two bodies and in the world of comics, it is possible. Psylocke and Kwannon are prime examples of existing in two bodies at the same time. Carol Danvers is another. Rogue absorbed Carol's consciousness, but Charles was able to get through to Carol's subconscious mind and reawaken her and through time, help her regain her memories while another part of her existed in Rogue.

Enter Madelyne: As the Phoenix died on the moon and was rejected by OG Jean, she inhabited a cloned body made from OG Jean and was alive once again. Had Sinister not blocked her memories (and powers) she would have been Phoenix once again, but as an amnesiac and given a few false memories from good old Sinny, she became Madelyne Pryor. Then we all know that she as well as Phoenix was manipulated from outside forces to have her dark side brought out and her powers started to re-emerge as well as memory flashes of her former life as Jean Grey. If she hadn't died she probably would've eventually remembered everything as being Jean and Phoenix/Dark Phoenix.

So that couldn't happen so she had to be killed off. So Jean reabsorbed her essence from Madelyne and became all three of them for a time. So she's Phoenix again! Then later she freed herself from their bond/personalities and was no longer the Phoenix up until I believe Uncanny X-men #355 or #356 when she donned the costume again, but was not influenced by any of the Phoenix Force until maybe Revolution, but definitely under Grant Morrison.

That's just my take on things.

Matt- Love your Famke/Jean drawing!

Re your take on things...... marry me! 😎

[Portsian]

Don't think so.

I dont wanna be rude, but instead of just giving pithy comments, can you back up your views with a reason, so i can try to understand where you are coming from and understand your view? It would help me.

[ariwl1]

Think of her like an actor. She may have legally double barreled her name, but for her public role, she kept her maiden name only. Actresses often marry and keep their maiden name as their stage name, while using their husband's surname in private. Superheroes without secret identities aren't that different.

Indeed. Lots of professional women do this, especially those whose jobs carry some degree of public recognition like writers, journalists, etc. It helps keep their own career continuity together. When among friends and family, many often go to the hyphen or solely their husband's last name since it more readily identifies them as a family, especially if they have kids together. As I heard one woman put it: at the office she's Jane [maiden name]; at the PTA meeting she's Mrs. Jane [husband's name].

Although it is kinda interesting to think of Jean as a career superhero with name recognition. The X-Men were shadowy figures for a long time that the public only knew by their code names. In Jean's case, even though she didn't actively use a code name for quite a while, she likely still wanted to keep her actual name secret so nobody would harass her family.

[spirit2011]

Indeed. Lots of professional women do this, especially those whose jobs carry some degree of public recognition like writers, journalists, etc. It helps keep their own career continuity together. When among friends and family, many often go to the hyphen or solely their husband's last name since it more readily identifies them as a family, especially if they have kids together. As I heard one woman put it: at the office she's Jane [maiden name]; at the PTA meeting she's Mrs. Jane [husband's name].

Although it is kinda interesting to think of Jean as a career superhero with name recognition. The X-Men were shadowy figures for a long time that the public only knew by their code names. In Jean's case, even though she didn't actively use a code name for quite a while, she likely still wanted to keep her actual name secret so nobody would harass her family.

Then it came the aliens and killed her family (writers even created new characters just to be killed). At least Jean tried.

I was re-reading Jeen's solo and it left me wondering...
If adult Jean could get a chance for a solo what do you think it would be about?

Sexual healing. don't @ me