Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2018

[Snoop Dogg]

Why are you here? You don't even like the character and prefer her dead, yet you keep posting in any thread involving Jean.

Fans of the character shouldn't want her to be established as more powerful. This applies to most characters.

[mike7171]

Fans of the character shouldn't want her to be established as more powerful. This applies to most characters.

'more powerful' is relative. Jean is an Omega level, so its just a matter of time before people embrace what she is.

[phoenixzero23]

Most powerful characters exist to prop up the villain as a big thread. Powerlevels, Omega, etc are just pretty labels that mean little and are in no way consistent.
I like Jean being powerful, very powerful but i think if she were a goddess all the time everything would become boring

[mike7171]

And that is sad. Jean Grey and Iceman were the only Omega's ever mentioned by Professor X. Then when Jean died, everyone is now Omega, or potential Omega. Or everyone is now Phoenix.

Also, if we take Tom Taylor's take on Jean's growth, what we've seen her do as of this point is the 'restrained' version.

[spirit2011]

And that is sad. Jean Grey and Iceman were the only Omega's ever mentioned by Professor X. Then when Jean died, everyone is now Omega, or potential Omega. Or everyone is now Phoenix.

Also, if we take Tom Taylor's take on Jean's growth, what we've seen her do as of this point is the 'restrained' version.

Omega became meaningless as the omega mutants became jobbed very often

[spirit2011]

Well, those who don't like the relationship is fine. But if we forget or purposely ignore certain things then we can say that EVERYTHING is bad. New X-men was horrible for jott on many levels, starting with the first issue with a passionate kiss from Jean and Logan on the cover. Did that make sense? of course not. Jean had just recovered Scott, who thought he had died and she didn't give up on him at any time. Then they increased in drama causing them to no longer have the same connection they had before, then Morrison arrived and made everything worse, starting again with Jean's kiss with Logan, Scott's psychic adventure with Emma, ​​Jean's death and Jean urging Scott to be with Emma (you'll agree or not, but Scott's initial election was to reject Emma, ​​Jean changed that).
Destroy a relationship of decades just because a writer didn't like it and remember ONLY that and NOT the MANY YEARS that proved to be a great couple, doesn't make sense to me. It's as if you see a game the team that you love is playing great, they are really the best, but in the end they start to fail and the referee helps the rival team causing your team to lose. What would you call them losers, incompetent and useless for that? a bad day anyone has it.
So Jean and Scott's relationship was sooo bad? Not, before all this nonsense of New X-men, they had a great relationship and were already thinking about finally having their own children without coming from other dimensions, futures or alternate worlds.

Their situation is not as bad as many people like to think and if they could move from a happy couple to a shattered couple overnight they can also overcome this bump.

Not it can't. It's pretty easy destroy things, not so easy to build things, it takes time to build things.

If it was only new x-men, majority of people would get over it. It's much bigger than that
Scott always getting much more stories opportunities, just see that Scott is back after than less than 3 years dead. Jean stories has not the same weight as Scott.

Jean only said to Scott live, that was a mental suggestion, anything beyond that was on Scott

[phoenixzero23]

the problem is that some people think that Jean is better of dead (fans and people at marvel) i dont agree with that but it is a reality. Jean is a symbol of hope, of good things, the x-men are one thing with her alive and another without her. She is significant and her death so much more important and has such a big effect on everyone else that Marvel has tried to move on from her permanently two times. It's not for Scott, Wolverine (those guys are fine with or without her) or any romantic relationship because they all have been treated like trash. Is about Marvel not wanting to use Jean until recently.

I remember one recent interview with Claremont (i think it was around NYCC but i don't have the link at the moment) were he said that Jean was better of dead, that she should have never come back and that marvel doesn't know what to do with her.

[WallStreeter]

the problem is that some people think that Jean is better of dead (fans and people at marvel) i dont agree with that but it is a reality. Jean is a symbol of hope, of good things, the x-men are one thing with her alive and another without her. She is significant and her death so much more important and has such a big effect on everyone else that Marvel has tried to move on from her permanently two times. It's not for Scott, Wolverine (those guys are fine with or without her) or any romantic relationship because they all have been treated like trash. Is about Marvel not wanting to use Jean until recently.

I remember one recent interview with Claremont (i think it was around NYCC but i don't have the link at the moment) were he said that Jean was better of dead, that she should have never come back and that marvel doesn't know what to do with her.

Claremont is irreverent. Obviously writers and fans get stuck in the past, but there are business reasons Jean was brought back. A good job with Phoenix on screen would sell well at a time even for political purposes it’s en Vogue to show strong women heroes. Look at Wonder Woman, now Captain
Marvel, the female Doctor Who, and the new Charmed. As MeToo has wrecked entertainment the industry has become a lot less mail oriented.

Now Marvel Comics is a holding phase, as the comics closely follow MCU but cannot implement changes until the merger complete closes. Most nations have already given their approvals. The merger is expected to close in January 2019. We’ll then start hearing more of their long term plans for Jean and the XMen.

[WallStreeter]

Fans of the character shouldn't want her to be established as more powerful. This applies to most characters.

Actually in this genre protagonists are pretty powerful, so they can be set up against major villains.

[spirit2011]

the problem is that some people think that Jean is better of dead (fans and people at marvel) i dont agree with that but it is a reality. Jean is a symbol of hope, of good things, the x-men are one thing with her alive and another without her. She is significant and her death so much more important and has such a big effect on everyone else that Marvel has tried to move on from her permanently two times. It's not for Scott, Wolverine (those guys are fine with or without her) or any romantic relationship because they all have been treated like trash. Is about Marvel not wanting to use Jean until recently.

I remember one recent interview with Claremont (i think it was around NYCC but i don't have the link at the moment) were he said that Jean was better of dead, that she should have never come back and that marvel doesn't know what to do with her.

Claremont said that because editorial screwed him up with jean-maddie-scott

If Jean was better off dead, Marvel wouldn't use her imaginary and teenage versions. Marvel was just doing what they could to avoid brining Jean back, permanet dead is impossible for majority of characters.
editors just wanted to keep Jean awy from their pet character as long as they could.

[phoenixzero23]

I didn't say Jean was better off dead, i just pointed that there are people at marvel who thought that way and had no problem in keeping her dead.

Thankfully she is alive know. that is what matters.

[spirit2011]

Editors just wanted to keep the spotlight on their pet characters, Emma and Scott.

No one really believed that Jean wasn't needed

[PowerPlay25]

Editors just wanted to keep the spotlight on their pet characters, Emma and Scott.

No one really believed that Jean wasn't needed

I think the whole thing was short sighted. Cyclops and Jean Grey can never be the iconic pairing they once were, I think the core fan base has been alienated to much and those like me, who passively enjoyed some of their stories more then others, it's just been too soiled. Having said that, I question how well Cyclops and Emma would play once people became acquainted with how they got together. Sordid infidelity, especially when the woman being cheated on is fridged in the end, is an uphill sell. Poorly planned. It's a shame the frat house let Morrison finger paint without a leash.

But I'm far from a normal fan, since I find the Phoenix Saga and it's sequel, utterly underwhelming. I've read worse but I hardly think it warrants the sacred cow status it's gifted by fans.

It sucks that the frat boys were unwilling to let Jean move on. If they wanted Scott to be paired with that dirty joke of a character, they could have moved Jean to another part of the franchise. I think Red has shown Jean can be intriguing, engaging and entertaining with various/different characters.

[Peanutsinspace]

Fans of the character shouldn't want her to be established as more powerful. This applies to most characters.

Fans of the character are welcome to hope and dream. Not every fan wants her on par with or stronger than the Phoenix Force. You still didn't answer my question though. You've been in multiple threads regarding Jean and the one thing you nearly always contribute is your desire that she stay dead or get killed again. So, why are you here? You don't want the character alive, why are you in the thread of the character you want dead?

[phoenixzero23]

some editors/writers did enjoy emma more than Jean, Emma became huge thanks to a decade of spotlight but now is she who benefited the most of the whole debacle is now out of the books with difficulties to join a team. while Jean is at the top. Cyclops is always going to be important though.

My point is that while it was horrible that Jean was out for so long, that already happened we can't change that but now she is alive on the top. some things just find a way to correct themselves.
also this doesn't have to translate into hate to other characters (not even emma). I mean they don't have agency of their own. it's all up to the writers/editors.