Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2018

[PhoenixStudies]

No there isnt. She didnt choose to be brought back from the dead. It happened against her will. What is she supposed to do? Kill herself?

Yes, if she was principled and if she really believed she was better off dead and should have died on the shuttle. She could at least be grateful that the Phoenix brought her back to life again. I'm being half in jest in case anyone didn't notice.

As of Exterminated, Jean considers Hope her family. Also how do people like how her TK shields were drawn?

Attachment 74598

I like it! Anything is better than pink blobs (which she had in this issue too). I like the pink sparkles she sometimes has better than the blobs. I've said it before, but I don't understand why telekinesis looks like exploding pink gelatinous ectoplasmic slime. It looks like it would be wet or make a splurt sound. I like the bright smooth pink psychic energy too. Although the perfectly spherical tk bubble, and its over use, does annoy me as well.

Overall, I liked Uncanny and Exterminated this week.

I liked Jean's argument with Armor. Jean isn't always miss perfect and it was understandable that Armor's attitude was annoying Jean. I also saw Armor's point of view as well. I liked Jean and Betsy putting Legion to sleep. I liked Legion blaming himself for Age of Apocalypse and Nate Grey's existence.

I liked Jean and Hope bonding. I may not be a Hope fan, but they had to get these characters together. Hope is technically Jean's granddaughter and Deadpool mentions this. It is kinda odd that they didn't bond over both of them having a connection to the Phoenix, but Jean did mention that they were among the strongest mutants in the world. I liked how Hope was not able to out-do Jean's tk with her mimicry powers. Jean being there for Hope and helping her grieve is of course very consistent with her character.

I thought Hope fulfilled the mutant messiah destiny by bringing back the x-gene and mutant births. Why are they acting like she was once believed to be the mutant messiah or that her special destiny still awaits or may not come to pass?

[Havok83]

I thought Hope fulfilled the mutant messiah destiny by bringing back the x-gene and mutant births. Why are they acting like she was once believed to be the mutant messiah or that her special destiny still awaits or may not come to pass?

thats not how I read it. She says she was the mutant messiah and now feels aimless. I took it as she feels aimless bc she fufilled her role as mutant messiah and her life has been without direction ever since

[FeniSam]

I liked Jean's argument with Armor. Jean isn't always miss perfect and it was understandable that Armor's attitude was annoying Jean. I also saw Armor's point of view as well. I liked Jean and Betsy putting Legion to sleep. I liked Legion blaming himself for Age of Apocalypse and Nate Grey's existence.

I liked Jean and Hope bonding. I may not be a Hope fan, but they had to get these characters together. Hope is technically Jean's granddaughter and Deadpool mentions this. It is kinda odd that they didn't bond over both of them having a connection to the Phoenix, but Jean did mention that they were among the strongest mutants in the world. I liked how Hope was not able to out-do Jean's tk with her mimicry powers. Jean being there for Hope and helping her grieve is of course very consistent with her character.

I thought Hope fulfilled the mutant messiah destiny by bringing back the x-gene and mutant births. Why are they acting like she was once believed to be the mutant messiah or that her special destiny still awaits or may not come to pass?

I think the bad part about the Hisako/Jean argument is the fact that Hisako is voicing the discontent, and in that way. That sounds more like a Hellion or a Surge than a Hisako, who has been in the big leagues already and quite a few times.

Edited to remove snark on the Messiah thing after Havok83 clarified it, lol.

[PhoenixStudies]

thats not how I read it. She says she was the mutant messiah and now feels aimless. I took it as she feels aimless bc she fufilled her role as mutant messiah and her life has been without direction ever since

That makes more sense.

[MechaJeanix]

I loved the look of Jean's tk shield in the Exterminated. I prefer it to the pink blobs (I love/hate them!). I was happy with the X-books this week. I loved that Jean used her powers with Hope and Deadpool. It was annoying that Hope could keep Jean out of her thoughts (only because we keep running into telepathy issues with poor Jean and Betsy). I didn't mind Jean calling Hope "dear" a few times.. she didn't come across as overly den motherish.

Uncanny was ok. I like Jean as leader and let's face it.. leaders often make tough calls and they usually make mistakes. Shall we look back at notable X-men leaders such as Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine and Professor X? The decisions by leaders are often controversial. They have to make quick judgements. I didn't mind Jean's words with Armor. If anything I felt the kids were written too bratty, but hey kids (and adults) can be at times..quite annoying.

[MechaJeanix]

Unless being a teen is part of the character, they are all 20-29. Beast is 30, 31 at absolute most and he is at least 2-3 years older than the other O5. And they always will be in that prime of life age.

Why people care/can't deal with this I will never understand.

Yes, I think the X-men are pretty much frozen in the range of 26-33. I do not want Jean to be mid 30's or in her 40s. Yikes! I say that as someone who is currently 36. When New X-men came out I was in college. I saw Jean and Scott somewhere around my age (maybe just a tad older). Now that I'm older I see them as younger. I think some fans want Jean and Scott to age with them.

[Ulfhammer]

No there isnt. She didnt choose to be brought back from the dead. It happened against her will. What is she supposed to do? Kill herself?

Not being given a choice isn't the same as her not choosing to be resurrected if the option was available. After all, the one time she actually had agency when it came to the PF, she choose to accept it's help to save her friends and herself, despite the PF warnings about the consequences...

This panel from Classic X-Men 8 lays it out pretty well I think.



This I think is the one element of PR that brakes the hardest from Jean's previous characterizations. She's been more than willing to take on extreme odds in the past to protect or restore her loved ones. I also think Jean would always choose life given to the choice.

[phoenixzero23]

Not being given a choice isn't the same as her not choosing to be resurrected if the option was available. After all, the one time she actually had agency when it came to the PF, she choose to accept it's help to save her friends and herself, despite the PF warnings about the consequences...

This panel from Classic X-Men 8 lays it out pretty well I think.



This I think is the one element of PR that brakes the hardest from Jean's previous characterizations. She's been more than willing to take on extreme odds in the past to protect or restore her loved ones. I also think Jean would always choose life given to the choice.

This was the first time Jean lived something like this. after a few times of similar experiences it makes sense she learned to do something different, so i don't think her choice on PR was out of character. She has grow and learned a lot since her first near dead experience. Her perspective on both situations is totally different but it makes sense.

[Ulfhammer]

This was the first time Jean lived something like this. after a few times of similar experiences it makes sense she learned to do something different, so i don't think her choice on PR was out of character. She has grow and learned a lot since her first near dead experience. Her perspective on both situations is totally different but it makes sense.

That makes sense if there was another way, but there wasn't.

She seemed fine w\ the PF during NXM which I guess is just a few months ago from her perspective... Unless of course she remembers her time in the WHR. Maybe the harder core Jean fans here can let me know if there's any evidence she does.

[Soulsword323]

Jean didn't want the Phoenix. She was tired of the cycle, and chose to break it, and that meant refusing the force. When Jean/Phoenix sacrificed herself at the end of the DPS, it was because she valued her humanity over godhood. What she did rang true to the character IMO.

[Ulfhammer]

Jean didn't want the Phoenix. She was tired of the cycle, and chose to break it, and that meant refusing the force. When Jean/Phoenix sacrificed herself at the end of the DPS, it was because she valued her humanity over godhood. What she did rang true to the character IMO.

Still doesn't reconcile with her being adamant that the PF was not an issue in NXM which was literally yesterday from her perspective in PR...

[Harpsikord]

Jean didn't want the Phoenix. She was tired of the cycle, and chose to break it, and that meant refusing the force. When Jean/Phoenix sacrificed herself at the end of the DPS, it was because she valued her humanity over godhood. What she did rang true to the character IMO.

I agree with this. And based on what we've seen since she came back Jean was tired of having to hold the Phoenix back all of the time and just wanted to be herself on her own merits. Jean didn't want to be Phoenix - she wanted to be Jean. That isn't to say that she didn't want to be alive (even if they tried to make that argument in the AXM annual), she just wanted to be Jean Grey.

[Ulfhammer]

Jean didn't want the Phoenix. She was tired of the cycle, and chose to break it, and that meant refusing the force. When Jean/Phoenix sacrificed herself at the end of the DPS, it was because she valued her humanity over godhood. What she did rang true to the character IMO.

Also just want to point out that you're suggesting she sacrificed the chance to bring her entire family back to life because she was "tired" of something. I don't like that interpretation very much at all.

[Soulsword323]

Still doesn't reconcile with her being adamant that the PF was not an issue in NXM which was literally yesterday from her perspective in PR...

That's why some people like that moment in PR, and some didn't. It didn't bother me, and I thought that moment was the highlight of the series. As Harpsikord said, she just wanted to be Jean Grey, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Also just want to point out that you're suggesting she sacrificed the chance to bring her entire family back to life because she was "tired" of something. I don't like that interpretation very much at all.

It wasn't an easy decision for her? I don't recall everything about the book, but choosing to be without her family/Cyclops left her visibly upset. Accepting the power of the Phoenix hasn't ended well for Jean, and I don't see why she should force herself to do something she doesn't want to for the sake of others. This isn't the same as her flying that space ship. Scott was already dead, and so were her parents. There was no saving them, there was only becoming a god to change the way things already were.

[Ulfhammer]

That's why some people like that moment in PR, and some didn't. It didn't bother me, and I thought that moment was the highlight of the series. As Harpsikord said, she just wanted to be Jean Grey, and there's nothing wrong with that.

It was development for sure, but I'm sure it was positive development.

It wasn't an easy decision for her? I don't recall everything about the book, but choosing to be without her family/Cyclops left her visibly upset. Accepting the power of the Phoenix hasn't ended well for Jean, and I don't see why she should force herself to do something she doesn't want to for the sake of others. This isn't the same as her flying that space ship. Scott was already dead, and so were her parents. There was no saving them, there was only becoming a god to change the way things already were.

Yes, her loved ones were already dead but cheating the rules of nature are how the X-Men operate. Always has been. Time travel, resurrections, siege perilous, Cable and the Askani future, AvX. These are all clear cases of the X-Men messing with the laws of nature to get a better outcome, and there are many, many more examples. I'm not sure how this is different.

As for the PF not being good for Jean, I'm curious why you think that. It's saved her life once, and brought her back a second time. If not for her bond with the PF, she'd have been dead since 1980. I kinda think it's been a good thing for her in that regard. That's not even considering how high profile the DPS and NXM made Jean compared to her prominence in the silver age.

On your point that Jean shouldn't have to force herself to do things for others, I'm really confused. She's been personally compelled to fight for mutant rights since she's been an X-Man, putting her life continually on the line for her comrades and in many cases total strangers. When it comes to those she cares about, I don't recall anything she would stop at to save them, or bring them back to life if they were already dead. It's one of the aspect of Jean that I really admire. The gal never gives up! I guess I don't see how this is different. If your suggesting this is Jean's "me time", why immediately jump back into fighting for the mutant cause. If there's anything she should be "tired' of by now, it's that.