Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2018

[Grey]

I love Kelly. She's nailing Mr. & Mrs. X, Jessica Jones is good, Rogue & Gambit was excellent, Hawkeye had good writing with "meh" art, and I haven't been able to read West Coast Avengers yet but I'm really looking forwards to it.

And on a semi-related note: What's everybody's problem with PR? I thought it was good.

My problem with PR:

It just felt like a dud to me personally. Didn’t feel very epic. For the return of such a huge character, it just felt kinda bland.

In retrospect I appreciate some of the intimate moments. Jean’s talk with the Phoenix was much needed, for example.

But you know what they say, expectation is the source of much disappointment. I guess I expected something more dramatic and epic. But hey, we got jean back so I’m happy. I didn’t hate PR but I honestly never see myself reading it ever again,

[Strong Girl Daken]

Can we not go with that please? At most Xavier messing with her mind gave her a push because it took away most of her angsty feelings about the past, but it doesn't go as far as ruining Red. The Red annual was before Astonishing's as it's right after Phoenix Resurrection.

Yeah, the Red annual took place literally moments after her resurrection and we saw her attitude there. Jean might be forging a bright new future, but that doesn't mean she's happy about the past, which was her focus in Astonishing.

The paranoid panic (not to mention conspiracy theories) here are bizarre. I guess Jean's hopeful attitude in Red isn't inspiring some people.

And I'd take PR's intimate story and unique approach over Jean deus ex machining some badly written event. Jean choosing to live a human life guarantees her agency, rather than the morbid cycle of life and death that the phoenix was offering her (and had given her for decades).

[Wiccan]

Yeah, the Red annual took place literally moments after her resurrection and we saw her attitude there. Jean might be forging a bright new future, but that doesn't mean she's happy about the past, which was her focus in Astonishing.

The paranoid panic (not to mention conspiracy theories) here are bizarre. I guess Jean's hopeful attitude in Red isn't inspiring some people.

And I'd take PR's intimate story and unique approach over Jean deus ex machining some badly written event. Jean choosing to live a human life guarantees her agency, rather than the morbid cycle of life and death that the phoenix was offering her (and had given her for decades).

It's not that much of a conspiracy actually. Rosenberg has hinted about it on twitter. I actually asked him about it, but I'm not really sure what his answers mean lol. Basically he said something like this does affect someone's personality. But that how much it influences Red is on Taylor to decide. And so far I feel like Taylor isn't even gonna ddress it. So, I just personally think it doesn't ruin anything, and that from what it looked like, Xavier didn't influence anything other than their feelings about the past.

I think it's the way people word it that I don't agree with. "Altered her personality,"manipulated her mind so she's fine". Stuff like this sound for me like if X actually went and "programmed" her to be in a certain way that she wasn't before, when what the issue implies is that he took away the O5's angst about their past, and that put them on a better state of mind.

[MarvelMaster616]

I personally really enjoyed Phoenix Resurrection.

Today's issue of Red was wonderful. Jean stopping that spire, while TK shielding Gentle, Storm, and herself in the water, was great, but I think the ending was my favorite. Loved that she was able to clear her name, and expose Cassie for what she is.



I also really liked the costume here. So long as artists don't overdue it on the shoulder pads, it looks good.

One of the best moments of the year for Jean and given the year she's had, that's saying something.

[jollygoldfish]

But Jean's ENTIRE family is dead. Everyone that ever loved her and a good many people that she loved, are gone and she didn't get to say goodbye, she woke up and they are no longer around. Her previous resurrection allowed her to wake up and reconnect with the Grey's but that isn't an option. Her marriage went belly up before she died. And what does she have to show for all of this? I think there should be some bitterness and cynicism to her character. If she weren't effected by all the loss she's endured, she would be the robot and Mary Sue, so many of the haters like to call her. I thought she played a very active part in the conclusion of Resurrection. As for her role in Astonishing Annual, she had the right to be depressed and angry, would she have eventually made her way past the anger and depression? Probably. But Xavier didn't want to wait to find out.

The last time we saw her, I don't count White Hot Room nonsense, she was being hurled into the sun, crying and asking Logan if Scott said anything about her. Scott was going to put an end to the triangle, all Jean did in the HCT arc, was die. Rosenberg and Taylor are LEAGUES ahead of GM in terms of doing good for the Jean Grey character.

And I really liked this weeks Red. I can agree that I wish it shipped twice a month but, I guess good things are worth waiting for.

I forgot about Jean's last moment as a human in NXM. That makes me feel even sadder for her. She asked Wolverine about Scott to bring forward in his mind his memories of his talk with Scott. And Wolverine, bless him, lied to her that Scott still loved her so he wouldn't hurt her but she could read his mind anyway and knew he wasn't telling the truth. Awful.

My main problem with her attitude in the AXM Annual was that the bitterness came out of nowhere in the context of Red and the Red Annual. If she'd been more specific - she discovered her whole family was dead, mutants were still feared/hated, Scott and Wolverine dead, etc - that would have made it feel less disjointed.

I personally really enjoyed Phoenix Resurrection.

Today's issue of Red was wonderful. Jean stopping that spire, while TK shielding Gentle, Storm, and herself in the water, was great, but I think the ending was my favorite. Loved that she was able to clear her name, and expose Cassie for what she is.



I also really liked the costume here. So long as artists don't overdue it on the shoulder pads, it looks good.

I can't wait to read the issue once I have a computer again. Or are there apps for buying and reading comics online?

[thechronic92]

I can't wait to read the issue once I have a computer again. Or are there apps for buying and reading comics online?

Comixology, its available on both Android and iOS

[jollygoldfish]

But Jean's ENTIRE family is dead. Everyone that ever loved her and a good many people that she loved, are gone and she didn't get to say goodbye, she woke up and they are no longer around. Her previous resurrection allowed her to wake up and reconnect with the Grey's but that isn't an option. Her marriage went belly up before she died. And what does she have to show for all of this? I think there should be some bitterness and cynicism to her character. If she weren't effected by all the loss she's endured, she would be the robot and Mary Sue, so many of the haters like to call her. I thought she played a very active part in the conclusion of Resurrection. As for her role in Astonishing Annual, she had the right to be depressed and angry, would she have eventually made her way past the anger and depression? Probably. But Xavier didn't want to wait to find out.

The last time we saw her, I don't count White Hot Room nonsense, she was being hurled into the sun, crying and asking Logan if Scott said anything about her. Scott was going to put an end to the triangle, all Jean did in the HCT arc, was die. Rosenberg and Taylor are LEAGUES ahead of GM in terms of doing good for the Jean Grey character.

And I really liked this weeks Red. I can agree that I wish it shipped twice a month but, I guess good things are worth waiting for.

I personally really enjoyed Phoenix Resurrection.

Today's issue of Red was wonderful. Jean stopping that spire, while TK shielding Gentle, Storm, and herself in the water, was great, but I think the ending was my favorite. Loved that she was able to clear her name, and expose Cassie for what she is.



I also really liked the costume here. So long as artists don't overdue it on the shoulder pads, it looks good.

The humiliation was in her having to be killed off to spotlight her cowardly significant other, but couched within the dumb premise of "the X-Men can't exist without Cyclops and Cyclops needs to fuck a new girl or the world ends" was an ok sacrifice. Was the setup corny? Was some dude wanking Cyclops extra, extra hard? Yes and yes, but that doesn't take away Jean's choice.

I probably could have written a better self-sacrifice ending and I wouldn't have centered her choice on one of comics' lamest characters, but Jean still did what she had to do to save her friends.

Her death was indeed humiliating IMO. It was basically Jean letting Scott have his cake and eat it too by "blessing" Scemma without Scott having to deal with the inconvenience of either a divorce or the consequences of his actions. This lies on Morrison.

However, I thought the real humiliation came after when Scemma was shoved down throats. Jean was the ex who was holding back Scott who had to die so Emma could make him a man and lead the X-Men into a glorious future. So gross. This is on Quesada and as others have said, Morrison fans like Fraction. It's not hard to imagine why many here are not happy with huge Scemma/Morrison fans like KT and Seanan going anywhere near Uncanny.

Taylor so far has done Jean well. Shame he's not getting Uncanny. Rosenberg has been a mixed bag but I think he's done well enough by her so far from her moments in PR.

[jollygoldfish]

Comixology, its available on both Android and iOS

Excellent. The SO will not be happy I'm reading comics on holiday but whatever.

[FeniSam]

So, random Jean-related comments after reading the thread:

This week's Red ruled, even if the issue thread unfortunately came down to the usual unpleasant stuff. Carmen's art is amazing, IMO, and the cast was great. I do agree there should be a little more interaction given there's one new character and many people who don't know each other, but given the scope and urgency I can overlook that. Namor did get the short end of the stick, as that fight should have been a piece of cake. Punch the lights out of TA and send him away from Atlantis and into the air and that's it.

I was concerned after the AXM Annual that X had done more to the O5 than just change their mood, but given how it was a (sadly) pretty self-contained story, it may not be of consequence in the long run. Taylor's been doing his thing far long before that Annual came out, so yeah.

I also didn't know what to expect from PR, but honestly felt it was better to have it end on such a quiet, personal note. It delivered on the basic premise (Jean's back), addressed the Phoenix-Jean relationship (how well it did so is debatable, but it did) AND threw in a reverse (Re)Dying Declaration of Love / Apology for Jott. In hindsight, I think any spectacular, explosive and superhero-y story would have been a bigger letdown.

[5cents]

Not familiar with the artist coming after Carmen. I’ll haft to look them up.

[Grey]

I forgot about Jean's last moment as a human in NXM. That makes me feel even sadder for her. She asked Wolverine about Scott to bring forward in his mind his memories of his talk with Scott. And Wolverine, bless him, lied to her that Scott still loved her so he wouldn't hurt her but she could read his mind anyway and knew he wasn't telling the truth. Awful.

My main problem with her attitude in the AXM Annual was that the bitterness came out of nowhere in the context of Red and the Red Annual. If she'd been more specific - she discovered her whole family was dead, mutants were still feared/hated, Scott and Wolverine dead, etc - that would have made it feel less disjointed.



I can't wait to read the issue once I have a computer again. Or are there apps for buying and reading comics online?

I use the marvel comics app. The new issues come out at midnight pacific time which is earlier than comixology I believe.

[Grey]

I’m just now picking up on people thinking the axm annual has some permanent effects on the 05.

I didn’t take it that way at all and I didn’t assume it would have any carry over at all into the other books. I just thought it was a self contained story.

I still feel that way. But I guess we will see.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

You have a great signature, Grey.

[Grey]

You have a great signature, Grey.

Thanks you!

[Portsian]

Well, you have to remember that Red is taking place a while in the past.

Why do you think this? There is no evidence of this, most think it is a little agead of time. Really the x books are so disconnected its difficult to see where they all fit in. In he 90# with thev2 books itvwas easy to see how they connected, that they were concurrent. But now...... just doesn’t make sense at times. Looks at Storm, in Gold, and Red + different costumes even. Nova is a world widecthreat, but it is not referenced in anybif the other books. Jean is in the ither books but there is just no inter connectedness. Blame writers and editors!