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  1. #5056
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    This isn't a 'Marvel vs DC' thing, its the general consensus that GotG 2 wasn't as good as the first.
    If we're going by "consensus," GOTG vol. 2 was still far better regarded than Suicide Squad even with the downturn in quality, so it's not really an issue.

    There's a certain portion of the fandom that has a knee jerk response to a Marvel director working on these films, which is dumb. A good movie is a good movie.
    Last edited by Holt; 09-13-2019 at 07:38 PM.

  2. #5057
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    If we're going by "consensus," GOTG vol. 2 was still far better regarded than Suicide Squad even with the downturn in quality, so it's not really an issue.
    Sure, yeah, most people probably would say that. Though a mediocre film isn't all that distinct in how people actually consume it. People don't go back and rewatch mediocre films any more than they do bad films (In fact, people are more likely to rewatch bad films if anything).

    FYI, my earlier statement wasn't an objection to the point that GotG 2 is better than SS, just against the framing that DC fans have a particular vendetta against the film.

    There's a certain portion of the fandom that has a knee jerk response to a Marvel director working on these films, which is dumb. A good movie is a good movie.
    I agree that's silly. I wouldn't be surprised if SS 2 is a superior product to all of his GotG projects. WB allows for a lot more creative freedom and the cast is far superior as well (Zoe Saldana and Chris Pratt are not great actors). I'm genuinely looking forward to the film.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

  3. #5058
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Sure, yeah, most people probably would say that. Though a mediocre film isn't all that distinct in how people actually consume it. People don't go back and rewatch mediocre films any more than they do bad films (In fact, people are more likely to rewatch bad films if anything).

    FYI, my earlier statement wasn't an objection to the point that GotG 2 is better than SS, just against the framing that DC fans have a particular vendetta against the film.



    I agree that's silly. I wouldn't be surprised if SS 2 is a superior product to all of his GotG projects. WB allows for a lot more creative freedom and the cast is far superior as well (Zoe Saldana and Chris Pratt are not great actors). I'm genuinely looking forward to the film.
    Creative Freedom. Than why was a Trailer House allow to do a cut of the last Suicide Squad film? As a Studio yes WB usually allows for creative freedom and forging good relationships with directors but the DCEU has been micromanaged to death by executives.

    Say what you will about the Guardians films but they're all Gunn it's why Marvel desperately wanted him back for Guardians 3.

  4. #5059
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    FYI, my earlier statement wasn't an objection to the point that GotG 2 is better than SS, just against the framing that DC fans have a particular vendetta against the film.
    I agree that's silly. I wouldn't be surprised if SS 2 is a superior product to all of his GotG projects. WB allows for a lot more creative freedom and the cast is far superior as well (Zoe Saldana and Chris Pratt are not great actors). I'm genuinely looking forward to the film.

  5. #5060
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Creative Freedom. Than why was a Trailer House allow to do a cut of the last Suicide Squad film? As a Studio yes WB usually allows for creative freedom and forging good relationships with directors but the DCEU has been micromanaged to death by executives.
    Directors often don't get their version of a product released though, that's why we have directors cuts. Its not an example of creative freedom, nor is it really an example of micromanaging. This is just how the industry functions. In the cut of SS we did receive though, there was tons of creative flourish and SS won an Oscar for it.

    Even if this was an example of excessive micromanaging, MoS, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, and now Joker do not fit this narrative. I'm fine for genuine criticism of the DCEU, but we got to stop pretending this is 2016.

    Also, I know I'm not suppose to say things like this things like, but this behavior happened in the MCU too. Iron Man 2 received extensive reworks by the studio, essentially turning the Jon Favreau's film into an infomercial for the Avengers. One of the actors, Mickey Rourke has publicly spoken that Marvel sliced that film apart. Not to mention Edgar Wright left Ant-Man citing creative differences, even though he was the primary force in getting an Ant-Man film made. There was also another director who left a MCU project while they were filming named Patty Jenkins, and uh, well, she made Wonder Woman.
    Last edited by Pinsir; 09-14-2019 at 02:48 PM.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

  6. #5061
    Time to liver forever! Energist's Avatar
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    Do we know who Idris Elba will be playing? I know there was talk of him replacing Smith as Deadshot early on, but last I heard he was actually playing Bronze Tiger. Any recent speculation over this?
    "Forgiving the unrepentant is like drawing pictures on water." - Japanese Proverb

  7. #5062
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Energist View Post
    Do we know who Idris Elba will be playing? I know there was talk of him replacing Smith as Deadshot early on, but last I heard he was actually playing Bronze Tiger. Any recent speculation over this?
    I don't think it's been officially confirmed other then that he is not playing Deadshot.

  8. #5063
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think it's been officially confirmed other then that he is not playing Deadshot.
    I thought he was playing Bronze Tiger? Is that just a rumor?

  9. #5064
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I thought he was playing Bronze Tiger? Is that just a rumor?
    People were guessing thatís who is playing since Gunn has been pretty open about wanting to make this movie a lot like Ostranderís run. Only thing we know is that heís not playing Deadshot.

  10. #5065
    Resident of The Djalia Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Directors often don't get their version of a product released though, that's why we have directors cuts. Its not an example of creative freedom, nor is it really an example of micromanaging. This is just how the industry functions. In the cut of SS we did receive though, there was tons of creative flourish and SS won an Oscar for it.

    Even if this was an example of excessive micromanaging, MoS, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, and now Joker do not fit this narrative. I'm fine for genuine criticism of the DCEU, but we got to stop pretending this is 2016.

    Also, I know I'm not suppose to say things like this things like, but this behavior happened in the MCU too. Iron Man 2 received extensive reworks by the studio, essentially turning the Jon Favreau's film into an infomercial for the Avengers. One of the actors, Mickey Rourke has publicly spoken that Marvel sliced that film apart. Not to mention Edgar Wright left Ant-Man citing creative differences, even though he was the primary force in getting an Ant-Man film made. There was also another director who left a MCU project while they were filming named Patty Jenkins, and uh, well, she made Wonder Woman.
    I think we all need to stop acting like both the DCEU films (specifying the DCEU because I'm not including Joker in this) and the MCU films are shining examples of creative freedom. I have no doubt that since both franchises have had notable examples (arguably worse in the DCEU's case because none of the studio meddling in the MCU led to a film failing) of unnecessary interference that they've learned from their mistakes, but let's not act like a director is allowed to do whatever the hell they want with a tentpole blockbuster film.

    Both WB and Marvel/Disney have released some of the grips they had on the creative teams of their films but regardless, these films have insanely high budgets, production practices and schedules, screen testings and much more all to make sure a film appears a certain way. This is because these studios and these producers are making huge investments with these films, and they can't just let whatever director they choose do anything and everything possible with their films. They have a brand to maintain, and a lot of that means sacrificing some creative freedom. These studios expect their films to have mass appeal, and not a small sect of people who have specific tastes, because money is what matters the most out of all of this.

    If you ask me, yes both the DCEU and MCU have films in which the unique strengths and styles of a singular director is present (Ragnarok, Black Panther, Aquaman and Suicide Squad are good examples), but that doesn't suddenly mean those directors were allowed to do everything they may have wanted. Producers get input no matter how you slice it and they have the final say. Waititi and Coogler both noted that Marvel Studios were a lot more collaborative and accepting than they expected, but they weren't completely hands-free (just more than they expected them to be) and Coogler in particular had to press on to get the people he wanted on the film rather than what the studio recommended.

    The closest things we've had to more creatively driven films are Deadpool, Logan, and Joker. Deadpool was a film FOX didn't want to make themselves until they were convinced by fan support and Reynolds and Tim Miller. Why do you think it has such a low budget, and was the first film to really start the R rated superhero film craze we have now? No big studio wanted to attempt an R rating because it could mean losing viewers and losing China. Joker, for all reasons previously discussed (and obvious ones), and same with Logan.

  11. #5066
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    New Birds of Prey poster:



    (Someone should tell the marketing of this film that this isn't a Harley Quinn movie).

  12. #5067

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    New Birds of Prey poster:



    (Someone should tell the marketing of this film that this isn't a Harley Quinn movie).
    It is. At this point, it's plenty clear What this movie is gonna be about. Letting it go would be wise thing to do. I hope, this

    Ain't true, though. Cause, that would suck. That would mean i wouldn't anything to look forward to. Even if this ain't for me

  13. #5068
    Resident of The Djalia Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    I like what the poster is going for (showing Harley is looney) but everything on it is just in focus and it's distracting to the eye. Could have been executed better if they tried a little harder.

  14. #5069
    Fantastic Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    New Birds of Prey poster:


    (Someone should tell the marketing of this film that this isn't a Harley Quinn movie).
    What?
    So, Suicide Squad made over $700M without China, with Harley being the breakout star of the film and face of a franchise. No other woman in a comic book movie, save Wonder Woman, has the recognition power of Harley Quinn. Given that Birds of Prey is a Suicide Squad spin-off, why in the hell would Harley Quinn not be front and center? If she isn't someone isn't doing their job, because the other characters are non-entities at this moment and can't sell the film. Note that her name is the only actual character name on the poster.

    Mind you, everyone will get some time in the spotlight and on the tight rope, but Harley is the safety net.

  15. #5070
    Astonishing Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    I do think it’s not exactly fair to take what was evidently meant to be Gotham Sirens and stick a quite different name and traditional team on top. And this is someone who does like Margot’s Harley.

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