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  1. #4126
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Superman has been done many times faithful on screen that's kind of my point he even had his "billion" dollar movie with Superman 1978 which made 300 million worldwide and if adjusted for inflation is a billion dollars in today's money. My point is with Superman he is a tough cookie since you can't veer to far off course with him even Aquaman while taking stories points, characters, and designs from the comics he still had a slightly different personality than comic book counterpart and while toned done greatly he still had some Justice League Dudebro aspects Snyder gave him. That's something you can't do with Superman because he's so ingrained into people's minds as one way.

    Man of Steel is a well made movie and decent story with more comic elements than any big screen Superman appearance ever but the tone, personality, and direction were different than people were use too and it divided the audience. That's one big benefit the MCU had most of their characters were blank slates to most of the audience seeing the films.
    That begs the question then, why change Superman?

    Snyder's worldview doesn't make him the right choice for a character like Superman. Superman helps people because he wants to, because he believes in a "good" that is greater than himself. The Superman in BvS exhibited none of that. Gave us nothing to cheer for, or be compelled by. Overall just a meandering Randian miserable joint (despite having a really well cast Batman).

    AQUAMAN took the awful characterization from JL and used it as a stumbling block that Arthur had to overcome to be a better man and rise to meet the needs of those around him.

    Update the world around Superman but let Superman be Superman! Seems fairly easy.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 06-24-2019 at 11:26 PM.
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  2. #4127
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    That begs the question then, why change Superman?

    Update the world around him but let Superman be Superman! Seems fairly easy.
    Because the old Superman movies are incredibly cheesy, with a very boring and unappealing main character.

    I get that a lot of people here love them and think that they are the definitive takes on Superman, but I saw the first ones when I was a kid (less than ten) and even then I remember that I found them utterly uninteresting with Superman a terrible protagonist.

  3. #4128
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Because the old Superman movies are incredibly cheesy, with a very boring and unappealing main character.

    I get that a lot of people here love them and think that they are the definitive takes on Superman, but I saw the first ones when I was a kid (less than ten) and even then I remember that I found them utterly uninteresting with Superman a terrible protagonist.
    Obviously you could update the world around Superman and make it more modern, without altering what makes the character work.

    Superman '78 is a fun flick, but it's not the be all end all Superman flick.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  4. #4129
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    With the right director Superman is a billion dollar franchise. Unfortunately Bryan Singer made that lackluster Superman Returns and Zack Snyder did some damage with that horrible BVS. MOS was okay but the public prefers a lighter tone Superman. And time to put Lex Luthor on the shelf. It would have been great to see Brainiac onscreen.

  5. #4130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    That begs the question then, why change Superman?

    Snyder's worldview doesn't make him the right choice for a character like Superman. Superman helps people because he wants to, because he believes in a "good" that is greater than himself. The Superman in BvS exhibited none of that. Gave us nothing to cheer for, or be compelled by. Overall just a meandering Randian miserable joint (despite having a really well cast Batman).

    AQUAMAN took the awful characterization from JL and used it as a stumbling block that Arthur had to overcome to be a better man and rise to meet the needs of those around him.

    Update the world around Superman but let Superman be Superman! Seems fairly easy.
    Snyder's Superman was helping people because it was the right thing to do. And the world of Superman was a hell lot more bleak than what Snyder put on screen or at least about the same.

    This whole argument all boils down to his Superman not smiling enough.

  6. #4131
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Snyder's Superman was helping people because it was the right thing to do. And the world of Superman was a hell lot more bleak than what Snyder put on screen or at least about the same.

    This whole argument all boils down to his Superman not smiling enough.
    I really don't want to get into a debate about BvS, we're talking about future Superman flicks.

    Superman in BvS just had no character, it's nothing to do with him smiling. It's the underlying messages in the narrative.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  7. #4132
    Incredible Member Krypto's Fleas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Snyder's Superman was helping people because it was the right thing to do. And the world of Superman was a hell lot more bleak than what Snyder put on screen or at least about the same.

    This whole argument all boils down to his Superman not smiling enough.

    ...and snapping necks. and not at least attempting to stop some of the buildings from falling over. and abandoning humanity after congress blows up. But other than all of that, Snyder totally nailed it.

  8. #4133
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krypto's Fleas View Post
    ...and snapping necks. and not at least attempting to stop some of the buildings from falling over. and abandoning humanity after congress blows up. But other than all of that, Snyder totally nailed it.
    Yeah, a guy who's been a superhero for less than a day should do a better job and fighting people a thousand times more powerful and experienced than he is. Makes sense.



    this guy has a lot of great videos dissecting completely inaccurate misconceptions that people like to spew about Man of Steel. Clark Kent was not out here randomly murdering people and then abandoning innocent humans leaving them to die. He's really truly trying to save everyone. In BvS his entire arc is trying to show humanity that he wants to help them, Lex blowing up congress is his move against Superman to push him over the edge. He doesn't abandon humanity either, he goes into solitude for literally one or two scenes, you know he has a fortress of solitude in the comics right? This is something he does. Do you think these things were in there just for random occurrences? Believe it or not there's subtext and a plot to the visuals people want to hate on. I grew up with Superman comics from all different eras. I understand people don't like Snyder's movies and his Superman, not lost on me at all, but when people argue about it I get very relieved that I haven't read this made up Superman they seem to think Snyder got "wrong"
    Last edited by Elmo; 06-25-2019 at 11:55 AM.
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  9. #4134
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Yeah, a guy who's been a superhero for less than a day should do a better job and fighting people a thousand times more powerful and experienced than he is. Makes sense.



    this guy has a lot of great videos dissecting completely inaccurate misconceptions that people like to spew about Man of Steel. Clark Kent was not out here randomly murdering people and then abandoning innocent humans leaving them to die. He's really truly trying to save everyone. In BvS his entire arc is trying to show humanity that he wants to help them, Lex blowing up congress is his move against Superman to push him over the edge. He doesn't abandon humanity either, he goes into solitude for literally one or two scenes, you know he has a fortress of solitude in the comics right? This is something he does. Do you think these things were in there just for random occurrences? Believe it or not there's subtext and a plot to the visuals people want to hate on. I grew up with Superman comics from all different eras. I understand people don't like Snyder's movies and his Superman, not lost on me at all, but when people argue about it I get very relieved that I haven't read this made up Superman they seem to think Snyder got "wrong"
    While I agree with you, Elmo, at this point, you're probably better off debating relatively unimportant things like politics and religion.
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  10. #4135
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    While I agree with you, Elmo, at this point, you're probably better off debating relatively unimportant things like politics and religion.
    Alright, first off let's get rid of politics and religion!
    i'm always online and i'm nice on there

  11. #4136
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Alright, first off let's get rid of politics and religion!
    Wait, I didn't mean to have that debate here!

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  12. #4137
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Wait, I didn't mean to have that debate here!

    You're right, I'll make a Snyder 2020 post in Community
    i'm always online and i'm nice on there

  13. #4138
    Incredible Member Krypto's Fleas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    You're right, I'll make a Snyder 2020 post in Community
    He definitely has the whole Divisive Narratives tactic down!

  14. #4139
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    You're right, I'll make a Snyder 2020 post in Community
    Just to be clear, you're more than welcome to discuss the DCEU Superman here.
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  15. #4140
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    big signs that say "Wake the fuck up 2020"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Just to be clear, you're more than welcome to discuss the DCEU Superman here.
    don't worry I know I can appreciate having some humor about it since they can often be sort of intense debates
    Last edited by Elmo; 06-25-2019 at 12:48 PM.
    i'm always online and i'm nice on there

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