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  1. #4816
    Fantastic Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    They have gone on record that most movies are going to be self contained so you won't see references to Aquaman or Shazam in Birds of Prey or any more crossovers like Justice League.
    Fans are not so quick on the uptake about what this means but essentially you have a shared universe but no hope of a payoff anymore and no overarching story that any of these movies are building towards.
    That's probably a big reason why the WW movies seem to be stuck in period pieces and not touching the current landscape post JL


    Who knows what Reeve's Batman will be but considering he seems to be recasting all of Bruce's current supporting cast from the snyder movies it seems like its unconnected from the remaining DCEU(WW, Aquaman, Suicide Squad, Shazam, Birds of Prey, New Gods etc)

    So yeah while it is sad to see that you aren't getting a lot of the comic accurate adaptations similar to what the MCU is doing that's entirely down to the powers that be wanting it to be that way.
    Todd Phillips recently said that the lower the budget the more creative freedom WB gives you. allowing for a R rated Joker movie or R rated Birds of Prey
    The bigger budget movies have to play it more safe and consequently be as generic as possible
    I feel like the DCEU are all the films rotating around the JL and Sucide Squad concepts. The thing about DC's universe is that everyone is so spread out they can operate independently without constantly bringing up other heroes. After all, JL is work. When you go home you don't want to take calls from work, and your work friends are often kept separate from your personal friends.

    So, the JL characters are big enough to have their own families and franchises with enough drama to keep them busy without having to tie in to the last JL adventure. Look at Batman. He rarely picks up the phone when the League calls, and that's because there's always something on his plate.

    Instead of being a shared universe, the DCEU shoukd be structured like the comics: a fiefdom of powerful families and organizations with the JL serving as a superhero hub.

  2. #4817
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    I feel like the DCEU are all the films rotating around the JL and Sucide Squad concepts. The thing about DC's universe is that everyone is so spread out they can operate independently without constantly bringing up other heroes. After all, JL is work. When you go home you don't want to take calls from work, and your work friends are often kept separate from your personal friends.

    So, the JL characters are big enough to have their own families and franchises with enough drama to keep them busy without having to tie in to the last JL adventure. Look at Batman. He rarely picks up the phone when the League calls, and that's because there's always something on his plate.

    Instead of being a shared universe, the DCEU shoukd be structured like the comics: a fiefdom of powerful families and organizations with the JL serving as a superhero hub.
    That isn't even all that different from the MCU's approach in some ways, give or take a few more guest stars in solo movies.

    Although I don't know if the people spearheading characters' respective solo movies, or WB executively, are viewing the development of the films that way.

    I kinda wish we were getting Wonder Girl in Wonder Woman 1984....

  3. #4818
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    I don't know too much about all the Marvel movies, except second hand, but isn't there now another timeline? Plus a multiverse. So they can have just as many multiples of a character as DC, if they want. And they're doing a What If series.

    I think that like the CW event, we could always get a Crisis in the DC movie multiverse which would deliver the kind of pay-off that comic fans want--making a virtue out of the multiple continuities.
    celebrating 50 years of 4 beatles crossing a zebra

  4. #4819
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    Check the multiverse. There are black Black Canaries.
    And let's not forget that the popular White Canary on the Arrowverse was originally Asian in the comics.
    Making Sara the White Canary worked in the context of the show. That being said, it would have been great if they did bring in Su Jerk Jai (the comic's White Canary) as a rival of Sara who was out to destroy her, starting with her name. That could have worked in the first or second season of Legends, but now that they've turned it into the Muppet show from hell, I doubt we'll ever get something that edgy again.

  5. #4820
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    Making Sara the White Canary worked in the context of the show. That being said, it would have been great if they did bring in Su Jerk Jai (the comic's White Canary) as a rival of Sara who was out to destroy her, starting with her name. That could have worked in the first or second season of Legends, but now that they've turned it into the Muppet show from hell, I doubt we'll ever get something that edgy again.
    Plus she's from the comics. Unless they can spin it for comedy or whatever Legends barely wants anything to do with stuff from the comics at this point. It barely counts as a DC show.

  6. #4821
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Ellingham View Post
    Sort of. The newest film thing is that JJ Abrams wants to make Superman and Green Lantern. The Cosmic Book News article mentions this as well:

    All just rumor at this point ...
    God, please no. Keep JJ away from any comic book property. He is such an over-hyped hack of a director, I don't need him or his 'mystery boxes' anywhere near Superman or Green Lantern.


    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Jurnee Smolett-Bell is the perfect Canary. Also, this scene/aesthetics seem to have been straight up taken from JLU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    If you believe Gail Simone, Jurnee is apparently a fantastic Black Canary, and she's not the only one who's said Jurnee is a stand-out.

    I'm sorry, I'm going to be that guy.

    I am SICK of forced color blind casting, just so you can say your movie is diverse.

    You want to make Iris West Black? I have no problem. You want to cast Larry Fishburn as Perry White? I actually love that. But you don't take a major character that's been around for decades and has always been white and cast a black actress. All that does is piss off fans of the character.

    You want a black actress in your movie? Cast her as Thunder, or Lightening, or that new Steel that was in the Titans comics recently (that would be an excellent character to bring to live action- not only would you show a highly intelligent, black female superhero, you'd beat Marvel to the punch by doing it before they bring Iron Heart to the big screen.

    Oh, and sorry Rosie, but you're too damn old to play Rene Montoya.

    If they wanted a Harley movie, it should have been a Gotham City Sirens movie with Ivy and Selina.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Plus she's from the comics. Unless they can spin it for comedy or whatever Legends barely wants anything to do with stuff from the comics at this point. It barely counts as a DC show.
    Agreed. At this point, I only watch for Sara and Mick, and I have to force myself to watch it.

  7. #4822
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    God, please no. Keep JJ away from any comic book property. He is such an over-hyped hack of a director, I don't need him or his 'mystery boxes' anywhere near Superman or Green Lantern.







    I'm sorry, I'm going to be that guy.

    I am SICK of forced color blind casting, just so you can say your movie is diverse.

    You want to make Iris West Black? I have no problem. You want to cast Larry Fishburn as Perry White? I actually love that. But you don't take a major character that's been around for decades and has always been white and cast a black actress. All that does is piss off fans of the character.

    You want a black actress in your movie? Cast her as Thunder, or Lightening, or that new Steel that was in the Titans comics recently (that would be an excellent character to bring to live action- not only would you show a highly intelligent, black female superhero, you'd beat Marvel to the punch by doing it before they bring Iron Heart to the big screen.

    Oh, and sorry Rosie, but you're too damn old to play Rene Montoya.

    If they wanted a Harley movie, it should have been a Gotham City Sirens movie with Ivy and Selina.



    Agreed. At this point, I only watch for Sara and Mick, and I have to force myself to watch it.
    1) what is forced about it? Did it ever occur to you that she got the part by being good?

    2) there were people pissed off at Iris and Perry being played by black actors too.

  8. #4823
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    ‘Forced diversity’ = casting I don’t like.

    ‘Natural diversity’ = casting that doesn’t affect any character I care about.

  9. #4824
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    I think if Black Canary was costumed like Black Canary (she's had a few different outfits), I would be more enthused. But they all look like they're out on a hen party, not dressed up for crime fighting.

    It seems like, with all the "Black (something)" codenames, even those that aren't African Americans to begin with, end up being people of colour in the end. And I find this much more embarassing for the comics industry than trunks over leggings. I thought this was something we were trying to get away from--it seems a bit racist, like calling someone of colour "Old Black Joe."
    celebrating 50 years of 4 beatles crossing a zebra

  10. #4825
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    I'm sorry, I'm going to be that guy.

    I am SICK of forced color blind casting, just so you can say your movie is diverse.

    You want to make Iris West Black? I have no problem. You want to cast Larry Fishburn as Perry White? I actually love that. But you don't take a major character that's been around for decades and has always been white and cast a black actress. All that does is piss off fans of the character.

    You want a black actress in your movie? Cast her as Thunder, or Lightening, or that new Steel that was in the Titans comics recently (that would be an excellent character to bring to live action- not only would you show a highly intelligent, black female superhero, you'd beat Marvel to the punch by doing it before they bring Iron Heart to the big screen.

    Oh, and sorry Rosie, but you're too damn old to play Rene Montoya.

    If they wanted a Harley movie, it should have been a Gotham City Sirens movie with Ivy and Selina.
    I get what you mean in terms of how Hollywood seems to care more about checking quotas than even remotely trying to adapt the source material more faithfully, but look at it this way, as long as they are keen on trying to make money off of adapting these properties, in their mind they simply have to change heroes created 50+ years ago. And changing a classic recognizable character like Black Canary would give them far more headlines than changing a love interest or a supporting character like Iris and Perry. There were rumors that they were looking for an actor of Middle-Eastern or Egyptian descent for Hawkman too, so don't expect to see white Carter Hall in a live-action movie either.

    The point being that if you really find raceswapping classic characters to be that annoying, then I think you just need to get used to the fact that not only it's going to keep happening for as long as studios still see money in those properties, but they will see it as one of the most important aspects of the movie, since it will naturally be featured all over the marketing. And it's not just live-action, animation changes characters all the time too. Demographics change more and more with time, combined with social media being what it is, hence studio executives simply don't think there should be another blonde white girl in the BoP alongside Harley Quinn. Perhaps the same reason why Black Mask will reportedly be a gay man in the movie, some executive probably thought they haven't had LGBTQ+ representation in the DCEU so far, so let's check that box as well.

    Again, as a fan I understand being annoyed by changes like that, especially with the rather smug and mean-spirited nature of the way fans are often being told to shut up about it or that they're bad people for complaining, but it's simply not going to stop, so either people should get used to it or just choose not to spend their money to go see the movie if it really bothers them that much.
    Last edited by Johnny; 09-03-2019 at 12:44 AM.

  11. #4826
    Fantastic Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    God, please no. Keep JJ away from any comic book property. He is such an over-hyped hack of a director, I don't need him or his 'mystery boxes' anywhere near Superman or Green Lantern.







    I'm sorry, I'm going to be that guy.

    I am SICK of forced color blind casting, just so you can say your movie is diverse.

    You want to make Iris West Black? I have no problem. You want to cast Larry Fishburn as Perry White? I actually love that. But you don't take a major character that's been around for decades and has always been white and cast a black actress. All that does is piss off fans of the character.

    You want a black actress in your movie? Cast her as Thunder, or Lightening, or that new Steel that was in the Titans comics recently (that would be an excellent character to bring to live action- not only would you show a highly intelligent, black female superhero, you'd beat Marvel to the punch by doing it before they bring Iron Heart to the big screen.

    Oh, and sorry Rosie, but you're too damn old to play Rene Montoya.

    If they wanted a Harley movie, it should have been a Gotham City Sirens movie with Ivy and Selina.


    I'm not sure what "forced colorblind acting" is, but i don't see a problem with one of the Birds being race bent. I thought they would go with the comics and make Huntress black. Im fine with Canary being a black woman. It's just not that big a deal.

  12. #4827
    Fantastic Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    That isn't even all that different from the MCU's approach in some ways, give or take a few more guest stars in solo movies.

    Although I don't know if the people spearheading characters' respective solo movies, or WB executively, are viewing the development of the films that way.

    I kinda wish we were getting Wonder Girl in Wonder Woman 1984....
    The MCU is episodic in nature. It's essentially TV on the big screen, and going into it's 4th season.
    DC isn't necessarily episodic. All manner of things can be happening without refering to other heroes.

  13. #4828
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    I honestly think the race swap of Black Canary was more about having an aesthetic difference between the two hot blonds in the movie because as someone else pointed out, it would have been easier to make Huntress Black since she currently is in the comics and then they would have had the same amount of diversity that they do now.

    A lot of people thought Gal Gadot didn't look like Wonder Woman for very specific physical reasons; she's too thin, not curvy enough, her eyes are the wrong color, her boobs aren't big enough...they just couldn't see (and some still can't) that she looked more like Diana than she didn't. The same is true of Jurnee as Black Canary; she's beautiful, she's sassy, she has a kindness to her face and also a fierceness, she's physically fit and if skin tone is all your looking at and it's THAT important to you, compare the Injustice game version of Canary to Jurnee, their skin tones are pretty close.

  14. #4829
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    "Forced colorblind casting" sounds like an oxymoron. The whole point of colorblind means it's open to actors of any race.

  15. #4830
    Mighty Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    If the Joker movie doesn't have the DC logo in front, it's not a DC movie.

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