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  1. #5116
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    It makes business sense to focus on Harley as a proven commodity, but Marvel has shown that it's totally possible (maybe even easier) to introduce new characters and make them popular.

    A fairly diverse all-girl superhero team (which would be a first) featuring characters with strong connections to the broader DCU and a presence in cartoons and video games? Shouldn't have been hard to market at all. Especially not if you leaned into their unique designs.
    Marvel has a pedigree of success that makes it easy for them to use any character and see amazing results.
    Are you going to say captain marvel is more popular than WW because her movie made a billion and windy couldn't?

    No it's because the dceu is still new and hasn't gained the general public's trust and recognition like the much has.

    That's why it's so easy for Disney to just throw out a blade movie or an externals movie.
    If WB did the same thing it would have to be smaller budget films like shazam and joker

  2. #5117
    Fantastic Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    Sorry do you mean she's the 4th pillar of the movie universe for DC? Because Aquaman is pretty valuable right now. Superman is in limbo which is too bad IMO. I agree that Batman and WW are pillars.

    The MCU has shown you don't need A-list stars or properties to rise to the top. Obscure properties like GOTG can be hot, so why can't BOP without HQ be as good if not better? Someone eventually would have tried to make it happen. Pretty much the majority of DC IP's have been talked about.
    According to Lee, she's the 4th pillar in DC's publishing line. In the movies, she's probably up there as a commodity (certainly when it comes to merchandising, alone) along with Bats, Diana, and Aquaman.

  3. #5118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Shazam? I don't think he's that niche.

    Or just politely disagree with .

    Yeah, especially with the new comic this makes me worried they're going to have Harley take over the BoP franchise.
    Those box office numbers say something different.

  4. #5119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    But instead of having an actual BoP movie that is faithful to the property we are getting a Harley Quinn promotional vehicle. It hurts the chances of having a future BoP movie because they already used the brand for this Harley movie. The BoP property has had long running comic series and even a TV show all without Harley, so it isn't like the property was nothing without her here.

    It is a case where I think most BoP fans would have rather this just been a Harley Quinn solo movie outright instead of wasting the BoP title on it, and Harley fans could care less what the title of the movie is because they would go see whatever she is in anyway. The only ones that get screwed over in this are the BoP fans.
    That doesnít make any sense. If the movies a breakout hit or even just profitable, a sequel would be fast tracked. Donít really understand your thought process on that one.

  5. #5120
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross61 View Post
    That doesn’t make any sense. If the movies a breakout hit or even just profitable, a sequel would be fast tracked. Don’t really understand your thought process on that one.
    I was talking about a future movie that is based on the actual comic and not Harley.

    Still, the sequel would be like the first movie. So it would be all about Harley Quinn again instead of it being a proper BoP movie. Since if the movie is successful it is because of Harley given it is built around her. So it hurts the chances of having a proper BoP movie faithful to the property in the future since the studio and the fans are going to associate the BoP property with Harley now. Or if the movie does poorly then they wasted the BoP brand on a Harley movie and the studio would probably be unlikely to make a future one without Harley that is faithful to the comic property in the future. So it is a lose/lose situation for BoP fans wanting to see a faithful adaptation.

  6. #5121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    It makes business sense to focus on Harley as a proven commodity, but Marvel has shown that it's totally possible (maybe even easier) to introduce new characters and make them popular.

    A fairly diverse all-girl superhero team (which would be a first) featuring characters with strong connections to the broader DCU and a presence in cartoons and video games? Shouldn't have been hard to market at all. Especially not if you leaned into their unique designs.
    I have a big problem with this marketing. When Guardians, probably Eternals, and even Suicide Squad came out they threw you all the characters and gave you a reason to want to get to know them, and show you want interesting and diverse characters are going to mash up. This is all Harley Quinn and the rest are wallpaper. Its early granted, but I have serious doubts thats going to change. I have no interest in looking deeper at the characters of Huntress, Black Canary, etc.

    I have a strong feeling this is due to test audiences not really liking any of the Birds of Prey team members besides Harley. In any case, they can put Harley in center of a team shot, but to just focus only on her might not give me any interest to see this film - I liked her in Suicide Squad, but the movie was an abortion and the aesthetic of the film harkens back to it way to much. Getting new, fresh characters that might interest me might.

  7. #5122
    Fantastic Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capNthor View Post
    I have a big problem with this marketing. When Guardians, probably Eternals, and even Suicide Squad came out they threw you all the characters and gave you a reason to want to get to know them, and show you want interesting and diverse characters are going to mash up. This is all Harley Quinn and the rest are wallpaper. Its early granted, but I have serious doubts thats going to change. I have no interest in looking deeper at the characters of Huntress, Black Canary, etc.

    I have a strong feeling this is due to test audiences not really liking any of the Birds of Prey team members besides Harley. In any case, they can put Harley in center of a team shot, but to just focus only on her might not give me any interest to see this film - I liked her in Suicide Squad, but the movie was an abortion and the aesthetic of the film harkens back to it way to much. Getting new, fresh characters that might interest me might.
    Actually, the test audience report suggested that Black Canary and Black Mask were the breakout stars of the film.
    Even Gail Simone gushed over what she'd been allowed to see regarding Black Canary.

  8. #5123
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross61 View Post
    Those box office numbers say something different.
    This isn't 1950's anymore, we can watch movies from our homes.

    Also by my math, at least 40 million people watched the film in theatres.
    Last edited by Pinsir; 09-19-2019 at 10:00 PM.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

  9. #5124
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    The only person who took an actual interest in bringing the Birds to the big screen was Margot Robbie, and that was prior to the release of Suicide Squad. So, if the Birds are successful and generates spin off of their own (word has it WB/DC is eyeing Black Canary), then it would have been because female producer/star and writer made it happen. Otherwise, there's no guarantee you would have seen them.
    Ironic to see Robbie push for the big Superheroine team when she's playing a Supervillain and is more associated with a team of female villains.

    I wonder if there's any truth to that trilogy of Birds, Sirens, and then Birds vs. Sirens movies.
    Quote Originally Posted by ross61 View Post
    Those box office numbers say something different.
    I don't know if we can quantify those box office numbers into saying the character is more niche. Especially when characters who aren't can find success at the box office.

  10. #5125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I was talking about a future movie that is based on the actual comic and not Harley.

    Still, the sequel would be like the first movie. So it would be all about Harley Quinn again instead of it being a proper BoP movie. Since if the movie is successful it is because of Harley given it is built around her. So it hurts the chances of having a proper BoP movie faithful to the property in the future since the studio and the fans are going to associate the BoP property with Harley now. Or if the movie does poorly then they wasted the BoP brand on a Harley movie and the studio would probably be unlikely to make a future one without Harley that is faithful to the comic property in the future. So it is a lose/lose situation for BoP fans wanting to see a faithful adaptation.
    It was always gonna be a lose/lose situation even without Harley. This is the aesthetic that Cathy Yan wanted. Even if Margot had decided to just be a producer on the film and let it be a "Pure" BoP movie without Harley, we would still be seeing the movie we are now sans Harley. This was never gonna be something beholden to comics, because the comics don't matter to the higher ups. They have stated multiple times that they're pivoting away from their cinematic universe for the time being and letting directors do their thing. So there was always a good chance that this wasn't going to be a faithful adaptation. BoP fans are at the bottom of the totem pole of WB's worries for this movie, and for good reason. They are hardly gonna make up a small portion of the people who see this movie.

  11. #5126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't know if we can quantify those box office numbers into saying the character is more niche. Especially when characters who aren't can find success at the box office.
    That is because you are now seeing the VARIETY folks have SCREAMED for all along.
    However when they did that studios would fire back look at Steel or Catwoman as weapons to justify not doing Shazam and so on.

    Marvel being restricted in WHO they had-had no choice but to use who they had. And in a LOT of case they used folks who had fans. Fans who just didn't buy comics (like Aquaman).

    Actually, the test audience report suggested that Black Canary and Black Mask were the breakout stars of the film.
    Even Gail Simone gushed over what she'd been allowed to see regarding Black Canary.
    I would say that is a compliment to who is playing her. Folks were unsure about Jordan in Panther & Jason in Aquaman and we saw how that worked out.


    Obscure properties like GOTG can be hot, so why can't BOP without HQ be as good if not better? Someone eventually would have tried to make it happen. Pretty much the majority of DC IP's have been talked about.
    Because DC does not want to spend the money. They are too set in using other film failures as an excuse.

    They think some of these guys can't make a profit. Notice you don't see Cyborg nor Black Lightning nor Vixen with a movie.

    Despite Black Panther & Miles Morales.

    Now there is NOTHING to say they can't do a BOP with her later.

  12. #5127
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    To be honest, the movie is going to turn a profit simply because it's being released in February, which is an infamous dead month for movie releases.

    I mean, looking at the movies releasing that month, BoP's biggest competition is going to be the live-action Sonic the Hedgehog movie.

    I'd expect more Shazam or Ant-Man numbers than Deadpool or Wonder Woman numbers, but it's still going to do well simply because of the complete lack of competition.

  13. #5128
    Mighty Member nightw1ng's Avatar
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    https://www.cbr.com/dc-diane-nelson-...s-geoff-johns/

    I wasn't sure where to bring this topic up, but since it started from Tweets talking about the Joker and Snyder's films, I thought I'd put it here. I'm curious, does anyone know what the situation is between Diane Nelson and Geoff Johns?

  14. #5129
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross61 View Post
    It was always gonna be a lose/lose situation even without Harley. This is the aesthetic that Cathy Yan wanted. Even if Margot had decided to just be a producer on the film and let it be a "Pure" BoP movie without Harley, we would still be seeing the movie we are now sans Harley. This was never gonna be something beholden to comics, because the comics don't matter to the higher ups. They have stated multiple times that they're pivoting away from their cinematic universe for the time being and letting directors do their thing. So there was always a good chance that this wasn't going to be a faithful adaptation. BoP fans are at the bottom of the totem pole of WB's worries for this movie, and for good reason. They are hardly gonna make up a small portion of the people who see this movie.
    I dunno. I'm sure Yan was part of it but the movie seems to be fulfilling the vision Robbie had and caters well to her Harley. I doubt that's a coincidence.

    I don't see why it should be for "good reason." Ideally an adaption should be made to appeal to fans and help new fans understand what this property is and why it's popular.
    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    That is because you are now seeing the VARIETY folks have SCREAMED for all along.
    However when they did that studios would fire back look at Steel or Catwoman as weapons to justify not doing Shazam and so on.

    Marvel being restricted in WHO they had-had no choice but to use who they had. And in a LOT of case they used folks who had fans. Fans who just didn't buy comics (like Aquaman).
    I think that's more the case with some of the properties they're using now, whereas they started with the characters who comic book fans would recognize more then the average person.
    I would say that is a compliment to who is playing her. Folks were unsure about Jordan in Panther & Jason in Aquaman and we saw how that worked out.
    Wouldn't the better comparison for Jordan be Fant4stic? I think he was the only one people really liked in that movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    To be honest, the movie is going to turn a profit simply because it's being released in February, which is an infamous dead month for movie releases.
    The budget's also not that high.

  15. #5130
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightw1ng View Post
    https://www.cbr.com/dc-diane-nelson-...s-geoff-johns/

    I wasn't sure where to bring this topic up, but since it started from Tweets talking about the Joker and Snyder's films, I thought I'd put it here. I'm curious, does anyone know what the situation is between Diane Nelson and Geoff Johns?
    Not sure what the situation is, but if Nelson is throwing shade at Johns, when she was the one who promoted him as DC President in the first place, then they must've had a serious falling out. Maybe Johns isn't that innocent when it comes to Justice League's failure or the many things Snyder fans tend to blame him for in general. I don't remember Diane Nelson ever publicly criticizing anyone and I'm sure she's dealt with plenty of shady individuals during her stint as DC President. So for her to publicly tweet that about Johns perhaps shows us that something isn't the way it seems with that guy.

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