DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Mr HardKnocks]

Do you think it's a coincidence that Hal Jordan is expected to be the older washed up veteran, while John Stewart the young rookie in his prime? If this doesn't say that John is being positioned to be the lead character, I don't know what does. They need Hal in the movie to introduce John since this is a legacy franchise and legacy doesn't work the same way in a cinematic medium that it does in the comics. In the comics Hal is always going to be a young guy regardless of how many Lanterns come after him, that isn't the case in the movies. He would be the Hank Pym-like character whose only purpose to be there is to support the actual main character. Some of the rumors even suggested that Hal was planned to die and then return as Parallax in the future to fight John. If there was any truth to that, it shows that after WB botched the 2011 movie, not only they have zero interest in Hal Jordan as a lead protagonist, not only they would turn him into an old character just to pass the torch to someone else, but they would turn him into a bad guy in order to further prop the other character. I really doubt that Geoff Johns' apparent bias towards Hal would do anything to help his case. The studio can just hire someone else to rewrite his script, like they have with so many other DCEU scripts.

It’s just an assumption, you very well could be right. But I do know that Cyborg film is not happening and there will be conversations over why Cyborg is the only one not to get a solo feature.

[Superbat]

It's not up to him, he doesn't have executive power in either WB or DC to make decisions like that anymore, he's just a writer.

Does that mean there's now a chance DC can do something like Captain Marvel, and skip straight to any of the other Lanterns?

[Johnny]

Does that mean there's now a chance DC can do something like Captain Marvel, and skip straight to any of the other Lanterns?

Of course, and especially given that Mar-Vell's depiction in the CM movie had literally nothing do with the original depiction. WB can similarly do whatever they like and they seem to be putting the blame for the failure of the 2011 on the Hal Jordan character, rather than on the way they adapted the property, so apparently their solution to that is to emphasize on the legacy aspect, where they naturally don't need Jordan aside from serving as an introduction to the GLC concept to whoever takes his place as the new Lantern(s) of Earth.

[kjn]

What you're describing is gender essentialism and it is hopelessly outdated and eurocentric.

Gender essentialism has been part of different cultures all around the world throughout history, but the gender essentialism discussions that dominate the modern world are heavily informed by traditional eurocentric conceptions of gender.

I'm trying to wrap my head around what you writing, but I don't get much meaning out of it.

You first say that gender essentialism is hopelessly outdated, then that there are "gender essentialism discussions that dominate the modern world", and that there "traditional eurocentric conceptions of gender". Your first claim does not fit with the second one. You also fail to account that the first theories about the social construction of gender came from French theorists, like Simone de Beauvoir. Last, the idea of a common "European" concept of gender doesn't strike me as true. The thoughts on genders and gender roles are rather dissimilar between the European cultures, and I don't think you can speak of a European concept of gender, just as you can't speak about an Asian or African concept of gender.

[Superbat]

I'm trying to wrap my head around what you writing, but I don't get much meaning out of it.

You first say that gender essentialism is hopelessly outdated, then that there are "gender essentialism discussions that dominate the modern world", and that there "traditional eurocentric conceptions of gender". Your first claim does not fit with the second one. You also fail to account that the first theories about the social construction of gender came from French theorists, like Simone de Beauvoir. Last, the idea of a common "European" concept of gender doesn't strike me as true. The thoughts on genders and gender roles are rather dissimilar between the European cultures, and I don't think you can speak of a European concept of gender, just as you can't speak about an Asian or African concept of gender.

People continue to cling on to outdated notions. Whether it's believing the world is only 7000 years old, creationism, human activity not causing global warming, or that men and women are hardwired to think differently and perform specific roles according to gender.

You are also mistaking me as saying that the discussions of gender essentialism dominate the modern world, when what I actually said was the discussions of gender essentialism that dominate the modern world were eurocentric. The latter refers to the most prominent and regarded discussions about gender essentialism as being eurocentric, not that discussions of gender essentialism dominate the world. I admit, dominate was a poor word to use in that context, dictate would have been more appropriate and it should have been phrased differently.

Differences aside, the argument that women are inherently more compassionate in contrast to men who are more violent has been a staple of gender essentialism. You are right that among different Europian cultures, conceptions of gender have varied. That is why I said conceptions.

Do you not believe eurocentrism is a valid term?

When you look at the discussions of gender essentialism that are most prominent, you have to account for who is arguing that gender essentialism is real and what they point to as evidence.

[byrd156]

I just had a thought that would be pretty awesome for WB/DC to differentiate their post-credits from Marvel. They would really have to get their **** together for this to work logistically but it would be awesome if they had a Secret Files & Origins style segment after each movie. I'm picturing this maybe as a way for maybe someone like Plastic Man who probably won't be getting a movie anytime soon but maybe is appearing as a side character in the "next" DC movie. Basically short little look books that gives you a feel for a certain character before they are brought in. It would be a great way to judge hype and if fans like the direction or look of that upcoming character/movie.

[El_Gato]

Johns is too much of a Hal fanboy to let that happen.

He doesn't have a choice in the matter. That would be WB who would make the call, and after seeing Black Panther's success it wouldn't surprise in the least if they request for John to be the main Lantern in the DCEU.

[Johnny]

He doesn't have a choice in the matter. That would be WB who would make the call, and after seeing Black Panther's success it wouldn't surprise in the least if they request for John to be the main Lantern in the DCEU.

Right, because trying to emulate Marvel wasn't the exact reason WB got themselves into this mess in the first place. Instead of trying to do something different, they should just keep trying to copy Marvel. Marvel does an Iron Man movie, let's try to counter it with Green Lantern. Marvel starts a cinematic universe, let's try to start our own and rush a JL movie out the gate. Marvel makes a successful movie about a black character, let's counter it with one of our own. How much more DC character brands WB needs to destroy until they realize they can't compete with Marvel that way.

[dswynne]

I'm trying to wrap my head around what you writing, but I don't get much meaning out of it.

You first say that gender essentialism is hopelessly outdated, then that there are "gender essentialism discussions that dominate the modern world", and that there "traditional eurocentric conceptions of gender". Your first claim does not fit with the second one. You also fail to account that the first theories about the social construction of gender came from French theorists, like Simone de Beauvoir. Last, the idea of a common "European" concept of gender doesn't strike me as true. The thoughts on genders and gender roles are rather dissimilar between the European cultures, and I don't think you can speak of a European concept of gender, just as you can't speak about an Asian or African concept of gender.

It's discussions like these that want me to burn my liberal arts degree. Pseudo-intellectualism is the bane of higher education, IMO.

[Holt]

I would think the decision to focus on multiple Lanterns/the legacy aspect had less to do with Black Panther (since we'd heard about this idea way before BP was out in theaters) and more to do with the failure of the last movie, as well as the fact that there are a lot of millennials whose first exposure to the Green Lantern concept was the Justice League cartoon. Using both Hal and John was arguably what they should have done in the first place.

[Superbat]

It's discussions like these that want me to burn my liberal arts degree. Pseudo-intellectualism is the bane of higher education, IMO.

The time to burn it would have been after you said J'onn J'onz should be the person of color on the Justice League instead of an actual black character, then went on to draw a false equivalence between blackface and whiteface.

[Frontier]

He doesn't have a choice in the matter. That would be WB who would make the call, and after seeing Black Panther's success it wouldn't surprise in the least if they request for John to be the main Lantern in the DCEU.

I still don't get the idea of how Black Panther's success equates to John Stewart needing to be the main GL.

Like, beyond proving that a strong black lead can carry super-successful blockbuster Superhero movie, a GL movie would still probably be the farthest thing from what Black Panther was no matter what race the protagonist is.

[FlashEarthOne]

Pedigree and "qualified" can be the biggest consideration out of a selection of a women. Unless the two of you believe that there aren't any women who can do the job as well as a man.

I never said that. For this particular job it has to proven based on pedigree, qualifications and relationships. I said they should look for the most qualified regardless of gender or ethnicity. Gender/ethnicity bias isn't necessary.

I still don't get the idea of how Black Panther's success equates to John Stewart needing to be the main GL.

Like, beyond proving that a strong black lead can carry super-successful blockbuster Superhero movie, a GL movie would still probably be the farthest thing from what Black Panther was no matter what race the protagonist is.

People underestimate how much the Marvel brand helped Black Panther. Was it really a best picture nominee? I don't think so.

[Superbat]

I never said that. For this particular job it has to proven based on pedigree, qualifications and relationships. I said they should look for the most qualified regardless of gender or ethnicity. Gender/ethnicity bias isn't necessary.

What you said was that focusing on gender was rarely for the best, as if it was either choosing someone qualified or choosing a woman.

Unless you believe there are no women qualified for the job, limiting the candidates to women won't make a difference based on pedigree and qualifications.

[kurenai24]

People underestimate how much the Marvel brand helped Black Panther. Was it really a best picture nominee? I don't think so.

What you feel is subjective but...

What we're not gonna do is act like BP got the best picture nominee b/c of the Marvel brand when all superheroes movies are looked down upon and can only get costuming, special effects, and score nominations most of the time if that.

And what we're not gonna do is act like the Marvel brand is the only thing that made BP successful and not the many people who put their money where their mouth is when talking about wanting representation b/c from where I'm standing no Marvel movie (outside of the team ones) has come close to reaching BP's domestic box office numbers and if that brand was as strong as you are implying the foreign box office for BP would have overtaken the domestic like every Marvel movie before it.