DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[FlashEarthOne]

What you said was that focusing on gender was rarely for the best, as if it was either choosing someone qualified or choosing a woman.

Unless you believe there are no women qualified for the job, limiting the candidates to women won't make a difference based on pedigree and qualifications.

It isn't... focusing on only gender isn 't for the best. Limiting the candidates to only women is ridiculous. Let's end this and agree to disagree.

[El_Gato]

Right, because trying to emulate Marvel wasn't the exact reason WB got themselves into this mess in the first place. Instead of trying to do something different, they should just keep trying to copy Marvel. Marvel does an Iron Man movie, let's try to counter it with Green Lantern. Marvel starts a cinematic universe, let's try to start our own and rush a JL movie out the gate. Marvel makes a successful movie about a black character, let's counter it with one of our own. How much more DC character brands WB needs to destroy until they realize they can't compete with Marvel that way.

While all that may be true. Making Hal Jordan the veteran Lantern who takes a backseat to John, wouldn't be destroying the brand. It's similar to what they did with Ant-Man. Focus on the passing of a legacy and make the film the opposite of the 2011 film.

[Johnny]

While all that may be true. Making Hal Jordan the veteran Lantern who takes a backseat to John, wouldn't be destroying the brand. It's similar to what they did with Ant-Man. Focus on the passing of a legacy and make the film the opposite of the 2011 film.

Never said that making John Stewart the main character would destroy the brand, I said WB trying to emulate Marvel when they proved time and again to be incapable of doing that is what ends up destroying DC brands. We've seen on far too many occasions that WB being reactionary to Marvel does no favors to DC characters. Not only that strategy doesn't usually end up being profitable for them, but they only end up devaluing and destroying entire character brands in the process. And for what, to keep trying to play catch up with another studio they would never be able to compete with? Now don't get me wrong, this is a business so WB obviously can't really ignore what Marvel does, but maybe they should stop trying to "react" or "answer" to everything they do because the results are usually less than stellar.

[ross61]

Damn, Aquaman hit a billi and AN still destroying the DC brand. Darn it!

[kjn]

Right, because trying to emulate Marvel wasn't the exact reason WB got themselves into this mess in the first place. Instead of trying to do something different, they should just keep trying to copy Marvel. Marvel does an Iron Man movie, let's try to counter it with Green Lantern. Marvel starts a cinematic universe, let's try to start our own and rush a JL movie out the gate. Marvel makes a successful movie about a black character, let's counter it with one of our own. How much more DC character brands WB needs to destroy until they realize they can't compete with Marvel that way.

Hollywood, and the comics, have been built on follow the leader strategies since the beginning, and there is nothing wrong with looking at what works for others and trying to make something similar. It has nothing to do with "countering", but about assessing what works and what there is a market for.

Marvel showed with Black Panther that there is a huge audience out there for black leads in superhero movies, and WB would be leaving money on the table if they didn't try to grab a piece of that market. Just as I imagine Disney lit a fire under Marvel to bring out a female superhero movie once Wonder Woman showed just how much of a market for female-led superhero movies there was.

The reason why the initial DCEU movies failed were not because they emulated Marvel: it was because they were poorly made and unfun movies with little positive message.

[ChrisG]

Hollywood, and the comics, have been built on follow the leader strategies since the beginning, and there is nothing wrong with looking at what works for others and trying to make something similar. It has nothing to do with "countering", but about assessing what works and what there is a market for.

Marvel showed with Black Panther that there is a huge audience out there for black leads in superhero movies, and WB would be leaving money on the table if they didn't try to grab a piece of that market. Just as I imagine Disney lit a fire under Marvel to bring out a female superhero movie once Wonder Woman showed just how much of a market for female-led superhero movies there was.

The reason why the initial DCEU movies failed were not because they emulated Marvel: it was because they were poorly made and unfun movies with little positive message.

agreed especially on poorly made initial movies, however lets be honest, Wb/DC are lacking on many issues compared to Marvel. Marketing is one major issue in which DC is light years behind them. WB gives the impression that they are not confident on the movies they release, it seems they lose heart even before reaching the theaters. WW and AM seem to have reverted the course but it looks that a failure in any future movie will be back to square one. What amazes me that Marvel seem to have found the key to whatever they release makes a hit, Black Panther and Captain Marvel confirm this. While WB, Until AM was released last year seemed to have only WW an exception to the rule.
Even WB's most successful movies also had their problems, WW was a success domestically but in international box office it wasn't that big hit. While Aquaman compared to Blank Panther domestically hardly made half the money. Somewhere, something doesn't work as at Marvel.

[Johnny]

Damn, Aquaman hit a billi and AN still destroying the DC brand. Darn it!

Wow, Aquaman did well so WB are suddenly a competent studio in their handling of DC properties. If you want to keep enjoying WB's reactionary garbage, be my guest.

[Johnny]

Hollywood, and the comics, have been built on follow the leader strategies since the beginning, and there is nothing wrong with looking at what works for others and trying to make something similar. It has nothing to do with "countering", but about assessing what works and what there is a market for.

Marvel showed with Black Panther that there is a huge audience out there for black leads in superhero movies, and WB would be leaving money on the table if they didn't try to grab a piece of that market. Just as I imagine Disney lit a fire under Marvel to bring out a female superhero movie once Wonder Woman showed just how much of a market for female-led superhero movies there was.

The reason why the initial DCEU movies failed were not because they emulated Marvel: it was because they were poorly made and unfun movies with little positive message.

I'm not sure if that approach should be applied to a tarnished brand like Green Lantern that already ended up being treated like dirt due to applying a similar approach to it once before. WB were influenced by Iron Man to make the 2011 movie, now they should be influenced by Black Panther to do another Green Lantern movie? They would be doing the same thing they did last time, a reactionary attempt in order to not leave money on the table, which ended up horribly for them and the GL brand. Should they really try to do something like that all over again.

[kjn]

I'm not sure if that approach should be applied to a tarnished brand like Green Lantern that already ended up being treated like dirt due to applying a similar approach to it once before. WB were influenced by Iron Man to make the 2011 movie, now they should be influenced by Black Panther to do another Green Lantern movie? They would be doing the same thing they did last time, a reactionary attempt in order to not leave money on the table, which ended up horribly for them and the GL brand. Should they really try to do something like that all over again.

By that logic, I'm not sure you want WB to make any DC movies at all.

I have no idea if or how the story or the characters in Green Lantern were influenced by Iron Man. But I still feel fairly sure to say that whether or not there were such influences, it didn't matter to the actual quality of the finished movie.

If WB decides to rush out a Green Lantern movie with a poor script and a director unsuited with the job, it will be crap, no matter if it is influenced by Black Panther or Guardians of the Galaxy or any other property.

As for GL being a tarnished brand, DC has already shown that they can rehabilitate one with Aquaman. And how many people remember the first GL movie outside of these boards. It's ancient history in popular entertainment.

[ChrisG]

By that logic, I'm not sure you want WB to make any DC movies at all.

I have no idea if or how the story or the characters in Green Lantern were influenced by Iron Man. But I still feel fairly sure to say that whether or not there were such influences, it didn't matter to the actual quality of the finished movie.

If WB decides to rush out a Green Lantern movie with a poor script and a director unsuited with the job, it will be crap, no matter if it is influenced by Black Panther or Guardians of the Galaxy or any other property.

As for GL being a tarnished brand, DC has already shown that they can rehabilitate one with Aquaman. And how many people remember the first GL movie outside of these boards. It's ancient history in popular entertainment.

The problem with GL besides a poor script etc, is that in a 2hr movie you cannot put all the GL universe in it, as they tried with the first movie. For non comic readers it was too confusing, too many scenarios, when all it needed was to keep it simple as possible. As you write a new GL movie will not be handicapped by the first GL. Indeed it is ancient history nowadays. Besides any new GL movie will not see light before 2023. That's an eternity.

[Johnny]

By that logic, I'm not sure you want WB to make any DC movies at all.

I have no idea if or how the story or the characters in Green Lantern were influenced by Iron Man. But I still feel fairly sure to say that whether or not there were such influences, it didn't matter to the actual quality of the finished movie.

If WB decides to rush out a Green Lantern movie with a poor script and a director unsuited with the job, it will be crap, no matter if it is influenced by Black Panther or Guardians of the Galaxy or any other property.

As for GL being a tarnished brand, DC has already shown that they can rehabilitate one with Aquaman. And how many people remember the first GL movie outside of these boards. It's ancient history in popular entertainment.

I don't want WB to make DC movies with this type of mindset, not any DC movies in general. I think it's a fair concern given their track record and I already pointed out that I understand it's a business and they can't fully ignore Marvel. I'm looking forward to Shazam because it doesn't feel like it's a reaction to a recent Marvel product. Same with Birds of Prey.

As for the Iron Man influences, it was about making a movie based on a lesser known property to try to start a cinematic universe with. GL was initially supposed to kickstart the DCEU, it even had Amanda Waller in it who was supposed to have a Nick Fury-like presence in other subsequent movies. The attitude of the main character was another influence since they wanted their protagonist to be a jerk with a heart of gold like Tony Stark. When that failed, they went with Man of Steel as the first chapter of their cinematic universe. We all know what happened afterwards.

[jetengine]

This may sound a tad offensive but I'm looking at this from a buisness standpoint with the "script/actors must be good" being a assumed obvious thing

You want to do a Green Lantern movie that cuts Marvel off at the curb ? You dont do Hal, John, Guy or Kyle.

You do Baz.

BOOM first big Arab-American muslim superhero, cuts off Miss Marvel before she gets a foot on the door, you get minority representation and positive Muslim representation. Plus because Baz is fairly new theres not too much entrenched lore you can modify stuff and not get too much backlash.

[Lightning Rider]

This may sound a tad offensive but I'm looking at this from a buisness standpoint with the "script/actors must be good" being a assumed obvious thing

You want to do a Green Lantern movie that cuts Marvel off at the curb ? You dont do Hal, John, Guy or Kyle.

You do Baz.

BOOM first big Arab-American muslim superhero, cuts off Miss Marvel before she gets a foot on the door, you get minority representation and positive Muslim representation. Plus because Baz is fairly new theres not too much entrenched lore you can modify stuff and not get too much backlash.

It's a viable strategy (if cheap pandering), but we're fans first and foremost here. I don't find Baz nearly interesting enough and he is far removed from the best GL stories.

[RickWJ324]

This may sound a tad offensive but I'm looking at this from a buisness standpoint with the "script/actors must be good" being a assumed obvious thing

You want to do a Green Lantern movie that cuts Marvel off at the curb ? You dont do Hal, John, Guy or Kyle.

You do Baz.

BOOM first big Arab-American muslim superhero, cuts off Miss Marvel before she gets a foot on the door, you get minority representation and positive Muslim representation. Plus because Baz is fairly new theres not too much entrenched lore you can modify stuff and not get too much backlash.

I totally get what you are saying...but personally I don't want a Baz or Cruz GL movie. I honestly don't care for either of these characters. Having a positive minority or Muslim character portrayed on film is good, however I don't want a movie based on any agenda or political correctness. I want a movie about characters I love to read about... a good script, good actors, and awesome visuals (proper costumes, great effects, etc). Stop mucking with characters origins, changing costumes, etc. Keep it simple and true to the characters being represented. My first choice for a GL movie would be John Stewart (with perhaps Kilowog and Guy backing him up if other GL's come into play).
I'm more of a DC guy than Marvel, but I feel DC's biggest problems is with their inability to script a movie that stays true to the characters. They always want to change their costumes, origins, or poorly casting actors/actresses for the roles. I prefer DC comics, but when it comes to Movies Marvel has definitely topped DC. Heck, I prefer the Netflix Marvel shows over any/all of the DC and Marvel Cinematic movies.

[ChrisG]

This may sound a tad offensive but I'm looking at this from a buisness standpoint with the "script/actors must be good" being a assumed obvious thing

You want to do a Green Lantern movie that cuts Marvel off at the curb ? You dont do Hal, John, Guy or Kyle.

You do Baz.

BOOM first big Arab-American muslim superhero, cuts off Miss Marvel before she gets a foot on the door, you get minority representation and positive Muslim representation. Plus because Baz is fairly new theres not too much entrenched lore you can modify stuff and not get too much backlash.

I totally disagree, mixing religion with comics, besides you don't know how it will be seen in certain countries. It can be seen as offensive.