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  1. #4561
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Disagree strongly, if Marvel can make obscure characters like Guardians of the Galaxy work, can make Black Panther a billion dollar movie, if DC themselves can make a stellar Wonder Woman and even make Aquaman a billion dollar movie, then it doesn't matter how much source material is or how broad/popular their appeal is, just get the right people to make a good enough movie and any of DC's heroes, black or otherwise, can do well. There isn't a hero that couldn't work, just takes the right vision and the right filmmakers.
    Oh yeah, we're way past the point where a superhero movie needed to be about a popular comic character.

    At this point, Marvel doesn't need to worry about what sells on the shelf. They make a movie and it's successful whether it's a well known character or a Z-lister even hardcore comic fans barely know. And DC (and other studios) can piggyback on that. Hell, think back a few years; would any of us have expected a pop culture joke like Aquaman to make a billion? Wasn't that a joke on the show Entourage, that the main character got his big break on a movie like that? Would we have expected someone like Shazam, who hasn't been popular since the 50's (and doesnt even have his original name anymore) to be successful (yes the BO wasn't spectacular but that seems largely due to timing, WB's crap brand trust with audiences, and it still did well enough for WB to do a sequel)? No. We would've thought that a comic book movie needed to be based on a popular comic book. That is no longer the case....if it ever was in the first place.

    You get the right people together and, in today's Hollywood, even Space Cabbie would be successful. The excuse of "Oh, this character isn't popular" means absolutely nothing. It's a thinner excuse than "Not tonight, I have a headache." So the only excuse WB has for not pushing any black characters or C-list properties is because they themselves suck and are utterly terrible, not because the character/s in question don't have potential or wider market appeal.
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  2. #4562
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    I kind of would like to see DC make a Plastic Man movie just so I can see how they would handle stretching. Marvel will have to handle stretching at some point when they get to FF with Mr. Fantastic but it be nice to see DC try their crack at it.

    Wouldn’t it be funny if a Plastic Man movie and a FF movie was released within the same year months apart from each other sort of like how Shazam and Captain Marvel was?
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  3. #4563
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    I'm more hopeful for HBO Max--if it copies what DC Universe has done and yet increases its production output. Maybe then we can get a lot more variety of programming and not just the same super-hero formula ad infinitum.
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  4. #4564
    Spectacular Member The_Lurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Oh yeah, we're way past the point where a superhero movie needed to be about a popular comic character.

    At this point, Marvel doesn't need to worry about what sells on the shelf. They make a movie and it's successful whether it's a well known character or a Z-lister even hardcore comic fans barely know. And DC (and other studios) can piggyback on that. Hell, think back a few years; would any of us have expected a pop culture joke like Aquaman to make a billion? Wasn't that a joke on the show Entourage, that the main character got his big break on a movie like that? Would we have expected someone like Shazam, who hasn't been popular since the 50's (and doesnt even have his original name anymore) to be successful (yes the BO wasn't spectacular but that seems largely due to timing, WB's crap brand trust with audiences, and it still did well enough for WB to do a sequel)? No. We would've thought that a comic book movie needed to be based on a popular comic book. That is no longer the case....if it ever was in the first place.

    You get the right people together and, in today's Hollywood, even Space Cabbie would be successful. The excuse of "Oh, this character isn't popular" means absolutely nothing. It's a thinner excuse than "Not tonight, I have a headache." So the only excuse WB has for not pushing any black characters or C-list properties is because they themselves suck and are utterly terrible, not because the character/s in question don't have potential or wider market appeal.
    Yes and no. The popular character is not enough anymore to be the guaranteed success. But you bet that they get more initial attention if they announce a new Superman movie as opposed to an i.e. Enemy Ace movie. But they need more than ever to deliver on the premise. If they want the mass appeal success they need to deliver. If they want an experimental out of the expectation movie even if with a character the whole world knows and has a certain set of expectations they cannot expect the mass appeal success (...and box office). Not saying MOS was that; just using examples.

  5. #4565
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    No longer the case. If it ever was at all.
    imagine being the dude online desperate to defend that Cyborg has a dick



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  6. #4566
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus Arkham View Post
    I kind of would like to see DC make a Plastic Man movie just so I can see how they would handle stretching. Marvel will have to handle stretching at some point when they get to FF with Mr. Fantastic but it be nice to see DC try their crack at it.
    There's Elongated man on The Flash TV show.

    I thought there was a rumored Plastic Man movie. I think that one's been rumored for a while now.

  7. #4567
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    I think the popularity of a character definitely no longer means much in the realm of cinema, but I also think Marvel is a company that definitely has a lot more leeway in that regard than anyone else just because their brand is so strong right now.

  8. #4568
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lurk View Post
    Yes and no. The popular character is not enough anymore to be the guaranteed success. But you bet that they get more initial attention if they announce a new Superman movie as opposed to an i.e. Enemy Ace movie. But they need more than ever to deliver on the premise. If they want the mass appeal success they need to deliver. If they want an experimental out of the expectation movie even if with a character the whole world knows and has a certain set of expectations they cannot expect the mass appeal success (...and box office). Not saying MOS was that; just using examples.
    Oh, you're right that a Superman movie will get a lot more attention than someone like Enemy Ace. But twenty years ago Enemy Ace would have been dead in the water before it even hit theaters, lucky to make its production costs back and break even. Today it would do fine and probably warrant a sequel, assuming the film was actually well done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    I think the popularity of a character definitely no longer means much in the realm of cinema, but I also think Marvel is a company that definitely has a lot more leeway in that regard than anyone else just because their brand is so strong right now.
    Marvel's brand power definitely makes it easier. If DC made that Enemy Ace film and it was a good movie, it would likely make respectable BO and do decently (maybe Shazam numbers or so). If Marvel made Enemy Ace and it was the exact same movie, it'd make maybe a billion, just riding off Marvel's name (maybe Captain Marvel numbers).
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  9. #4569
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I honestly feel like the MCU could start making up brand new superheroes to put in ensemble pieces or as leads, and as long as the brand was attached to it, they'd make bank.

    DC kind of still needs to rely somewhat on their big names until their brand can be trusted. Because as of now, the brand still isn't strong enough to get total trust from the audience for even the big names, let alone the smaller ones. There is still some fear that they will screw up WW84 even after the first film, maybe not too much fear, but the shadow of doubt is going to linger a bit. It's getting better thanks to Aquaman and Shazam though, they just need to keep it up for at least a few more films.

  10. #4570
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    When it comes to making black DC superhero movies I have to admit my first choice is still and always will be Steel. Of course sadly there's too many people who'd call him an Iron Man ripoff now thanks to the success of the MCU and RDJr's Iron Man. I think the way to get around that might be to introduce him in somebody else's movie, either Superman (can't do a Reign of the Supermen thing any more, but I still like Steel's connection to Supes) or maybe Cyborg's (Cyborg's alien tech body could easily help inspire the making of a suit). Sadly WB seems unwilling to even think about doing another Superman movie in the near future or ever giving Cyborg a solo, so that option's not likely. Sigh.

    If Cyborg isn't going to happen, and if Steel is problematic due to the Iron Man armored hero thing and Superman connection, then the other options are...

    Black Lightning - I'd normally be all for this first and foremost, but with how WB kind of has this weird thing about not wanting characters to appear on both shows and movies at the same time usually I'd be too afraid they'd end the excellent Black Lightning show on the CW, and if it comes down to it I'd rather keep the show than lose it for a film.

    John Stewart - Certainly possible, but I'm still not sure if WB is willing to risk doing another GL movie again yet. So it's kind of a coin toss when/if this could happen.

    Static Shock - Not really sure how the whole Milestone deal/stuff works out, so probably not.

    Vixen - Honestly probably be the best choice. She's not really being used much in the CW shows any more so no real risk in losing her, and there's no other reason not to use her. Could definitely work.

    Duke/Signal - Doesn't really work without the Batman connection, and since they're rebooting Batman there's no chance of this.
    Batwing - Same as Signal.

    Bumblebee - Really only know her from team shows like Teen Titans and Superhero Girls, but there's no reason not to do another team movie with her there or maybe even make her more of a solo character if she hasn't already been so in the comics.


    ...and that's all the black DC superheroes I think I actually know of. Well, Bronze Tiger kind of, but he's in the Suicide Squad sequel.

    Still my fave is Steel.
    Last edited by Vakanai; 08-11-2019 at 03:09 PM.

  11. #4571
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I honestly feel like the MCU could start making up brand new superheroes to put in ensemble pieces or as leads, and as long as the brand was attached to it, they'd make bank.

    DC kind of still needs to rely somewhat on their big names until their brand can be trusted. Because as of now, the brand still isn't strong enough to get total trust from the audience for even the big names, let alone the smaller ones. There is still some fear that they will screw up WW84 even after the first film, maybe not too much fear, but the shadow of doubt is going to linger a bit. It's getting better thanks to Aquaman and Shazam though, they just need to keep it up for at least a few more films.
    I cant speak for general audiences but WB still has a long way to go before I trust them again.

    And Marvel could easily create brand new characters in their movies without suffering for it. Hell, odds are the vast, vast majority of audiences wouldn't have a clue they were watching an original character. I mean, how many people out in the world knew who the Guardians or Ant-Man were before the movies? Hell, how many people know that Blade was a comic character long before Snipes played him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    ...and that's all the black DC superheroes I think I actually know of. Well, Bronze Tiger kind of, but he's in the Suicide Squad sequel.

    Still my fave is Steel.
    Oh, I got much love for Steel. I'm still salty over how DC has ignored and marginalized the guy. And I think Cyborg was (and is) a great choice for a lead black hero.

    But if you can't do either of them for whatever reason? Mr. Terrific. Seriously, no one gives a damn about Terry Sloane and only the most hardcore DC fans among us even remember him. Michael Holt *is* Mr. Terrific, and he'd be a fantastic choice. In fact, he combines a lot of elements from several characters you mentioned; he's super smart and tech-based like Steel and Vic, he's something of an educator (he can't help but explain everything to those around him anyway) and was a major athlete like Black Lightning, he's successful and rich like Vixen.
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  12. #4572
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I cant speak for general audiences but WB still has a long way to go before I trust them again.

    And Marvel could easily create brand new characters in their movies without suffering for it. Hell, odds are the vast, vast majority of audiences wouldn't have a clue they were watching an original character. I mean, how many people out in the world knew who the Guardians or Ant-Man were before the movies? Hell, how many people know that Blade was a comic character long before Snipes played him?
    Same on the trust issue. Any positive feelings I have for the sequels to WW, Aquaman and Shaazam are down to the directors and hoping the studio won't bitch things up.

    There probably isn't too much of a need for Marvel to make new characters in the films, as they have a multitude of characters who deserve a shot and have more of an opportunity than they've ever had. Still, it would be nice to use the opportunity to create some brand new mythologies and concepts (little to no legacies required) within the Marvel brand with a more diversified line up and have them take off in a way that they can't in the comics for numerous complicated reasons.

  13. #4573
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I actually think it'd be a brilliant move on Marvel's part to create a new, original character for the movies, and then spin that character into the comics.

    Now, larger media success doesn't trickle down to floppies. We all know that. But if the film with the new character dropped a little something about the comics launch instead of doing a post-credits scene? Have the actor/actress walk into that post-credit scene, say "Hey, I hope you enjoyed my character's debut! He/she's brand new! But you can follow my adventures by logging into Comixology and downloading my new book!" I think we'd see a real strong showing in digital sales.

    In my experience, even people who enjoy the superhero movies rarely realize comics are still being made. A lot of people I know, very intelligent, educated, worldly people, think comics stopped being made decades ago (once they stopped appearing in grocery stores it was all over as far as the general public was concerned). And a lot of other people aren't interested enough to hunt down a LCS (or they dont have the time, or both). But a little advertising instead of a post-credits scene? And having the actor/s do it instead of just having a bit of text with a website attached? That would likely do more for the comics industry than anything else marketing can do. Even word of mouth marketing (all the social media stuff ya'll probably don't even realize you're a part of) isn't going to have as big an impact as something like Gal Gadot or Robert Downy Jr taking thirty seconds to say "comics are still out there and they're awesome and you can read them online!"
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  14. #4574
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Oh, I got much love for Steel. I'm still salty over how DC has ignored and marginalized the guy. And I think Cyborg was (and is) a great choice for a lead black hero.

    But if you can't do either of them for whatever reason? Mr. Terrific. Seriously, no one gives a damn about Terry Sloane and only the most hardcore DC fans among us even remember him. Michael Holt *is* Mr. Terrific, and he'd be a fantastic choice. In fact, he combines a lot of elements from several characters you mentioned; he's super smart and tech-based like Steel and Vic, he's something of an educator (he can't help but explain everything to those around him anyway) and was a major athlete like Black Lightning, he's successful and rich like Vixen.
    You know I keep forgetting Mr. Terrific exists, I guess because I've never read the comics he's been in, he had an extremely small role in the old DCAU JLU cartoon (did he even get an episode where he got to be one of the main stars? I don't think he did), and I have to be honest I'm kind of lukewarm on the CW Arrow version (too socially awkward)(although I like the actor well enough as a funny guy). But you're right, from what little I actually know of the comics character he'd be a terrific (heh) pick for a movie. Just as long as they don't try and dumb him down (no reason to assume they would downplay him being a genius, just a fear I have). Yeah, they could (and probably should) do a Mr. Terrific movie, or at the very least utilize him more in outside media better (even when he appears he's barely a character, JLU, Justice League vs the Fatal Five). They could definitely make him a bigger name than he currently is. But that's true for a lot of DC characters who aren't the big 7 or in the Batfam.

  15. #4575
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    You know I keep forgetting Mr. Terrific exists, I guess because I've never read the comics he's been in, he had an extremely small role in the old DCAU JLU cartoon (did he even get an episode where he got to be one of the main stars? I don't think he did), and I have to be honest I'm kind of lukewarm on the CW Arrow version (too socially awkward)(although I like the actor well enough as a funny guy). But you're right, from what little I actually know of the comics character he'd be a terrific (heh) pick for a movie. Just as long as they don't try and dumb him down (no reason to assume they would downplay him being a genius, just a fear I have). Yeah, they could (and probably should) do a Mr. Terrific movie, or at the very least utilize him more in outside media better (even when he appears he's barely a character, JLU, Justice League vs the Fatal Five). They could definitely make him a bigger name than he currently is. But that's true for a lot of DC characters who aren't the big 7 or in the Batfam.
    Hell, most days I feel that way about anyone who isn't Batman or maybe Harley Quinn.

    I maintain that Cyborg, as a non-legacy PoC character, would be an ideal choice to spearhead a representation effort. He's got everything he needs to excel, all he lacks is desire on DC/WB's part. But if not him? Michael Holt and Black Lightning constantly vie for my #2 choice (actually, Lightning sorta vies for the #1 *and* #2 spots, depending on my mood).

    In any case, Terrific is in my top 3 choices for PoC that need and deserve more effort across the board. Dude really is one of the hidden gems of the DCU. His larger media appearances aren't anything to write home about (dont watch the CW shows so cant comment on that) but the character is insanely rich in potential; great name, cool visual and "power set" (those T-Spheres really stand out in a good way), solid background, interesting personality traits (how many atheists are in comics and will argue their opinion well?). He could be a major player if the right people got their hands on him.
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