DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Holt]

The quote you posted even says the author doesn't know to what extent audiences liked Suicide Squad more than the critics and isn't even sure if the bad reception to SS is actually affecting BoP.

Yes, he cites it as a factor. What he does not do is say it's completely not a thing "BECAUSE AQUAMAN!!!!!!" which is what you're doing. You seem to be really upset by even the slightest criticism to the DCEU for some reason.

And yet for some reason, you still keep pushing this argument that the reception to previous movies is affecting the DCEU despite more evidence to the contrary. lol.

Because it isn't evidence to the contrary. It's evidence people liked those specific characters enough to see more of them.

[Holt]

Except this is true for anything.

Not in this context. I'm discussing the DCEU, not television. This is not "It's not as successful as Marvel" it's just saying that the DCEU brand doesn't currently have the cache to get people on its name and logo alone.

"Well DC films are failures because they didn't make as much as Marvel."

Nobody is saying that. I said that the DCEU as a brand isn't strong enough to sell audiences on an unknown property (which we now have two examples of), and for some reason this was controversial.

[Agent Z]

Know what, forget it. This argument just isn't worth the head ache and I've already wasted enough time on this board arguing with people with a "sky is falling"mentality when it comes to DC. Have a nice day.

[Holt]

Literally nobody is saying "the sky is falling" but sure. Have a good one.

[Pinsir]

Who are these "you people" you keep referencing so often. This forum is not an echo chamber and people have expressed various different viewpoints in reference to Birds of Prey's box office performance such as marketing, R rating, brand perception, tone, level of popularity, etc. The MCU has barely been part of the conversation, though it makes sense to be given their dominance over the cbm market.

My post really nothing to do with the MCU. I talked mostly about DC's branding and how impressive it is. The only reason why people can't recognize how impressive it is, is because the Marvel brand is bigger.

[stargazer01]

Not when it has already been proven to not be the case. Again, Aquaman made a billion despite coming out after Suicide Squad and Justice League.

Aquaman had a lower domestic opening than most DCEU films. But audiences liked it so much it became a much bigger hit than BvS and WW. Freakin Aquaman. It's also a film that has both men as women as heroes.

[Agent Z]

Aquaman had a lower domestic opening than most DCEU films. But audiences liked it so much it became a much bigger hit than BvS and WW. Freakin Aquaman. It's also a film that has both men as women as heroes.

You pretty much proved my point. And I also don't know what having heroic men and women has to do with anything.

[SiegePerilous02]

Wonder Woman is one of the most iconic superheroes ever, the most famous female superhero and pretty much the only major success as a solo act that the Big Two have ever produced for most of their history. people have been clamoring her cinematic debut for a long time, and she was pretty much the only element of BvS that people liked. So a well received cameo in an otherwise bad movie + iconic status + long ass wait + good/great word of mouth, it's no surprise her film as a hit. Similarly, though he's often the punchline of jokes, Aquaman is a well known IP with a lot of history behind it with a popular actor. It's not surprising he did well either.

Shazam meanwhile is much less well known for the mainstream audience, and the DC brand is not reliable enough that they can slap it on anything at this point and get success for any character (like Marvel can with friggin' Ant-Man). And Shazam deserved more success than it go, but thankfully it didn't have a huge budget so it being a moderate success isn't the end of the world. But Harley as a solo act without the Joker or Batman, backed by more relatively obscure characters like the BOP and an R-rating on top of it and spinning off from the panned Suicide Squad, is less of a recipe for success. And it's a shame because the film sounds good (seeing it on Saturday), but there are factors to be considered here.

It doesn't mean the DCEU as a whole is doomed. I think WW84 will have hype surrounding it and if it delivers, it will do well. As will Aquaman 2 and, and a fresh start with The Batman will do well for Bats. But the brand is just not that strong overall, and it's not wrong to point that out.

[Pinsir]

Not in this context. I'm discussing the DCEU, not television. This is not "It's not as successful as Marvel" it's just saying that the DCEU brand doesn't currently have the cache to get people on its name and logo alone.

Nobody is saying that. I said that the DCEU as a brand isn't strong enough to sell audiences on an unknown property (which we now have two examples of), and for some reason this was controversial.

This is the thing though, you say the DC brand isn't strong enough to do this, but you cite Shazam as an example. Yes, Shazam wasn't a blockbuster, but that doesn't mean it the DCEU brand didn't sell the movie. Its okay not to have every film be a blockbuster, so long as those films are priced accordingly.

BoP was highly experimental and isn't necessarily going to appeal to the same people who like traditional DCEU films. If you love Shazam, Aquaman and Wonder Woman, I don't think you're the type of person whose going to like BoP, which isn't the case with MCU or Star Wars films, which are all tonally consistent. The DCEU is significantly more diverse and not every DCEU fan is going like or want to see every movie, which is the same for the comics.

[Holt]

This is the thing though, you say the DC brand isn't strong enough to do this, but you cite Shazam as an example. Yes, Shazam wasn't a blockbuster, but that doesn't mean it the DCEU brand didn't sell the movie. Its okay not to have every film be a blockbuster, so long as those films are priced accordingly.

I agree that not everything has to be a blockbuster, but I also think that it's a movie that should've done better, especially given how positive the critical reception was, which is what I also feel with BOP. It's why I felt the rising tide metaphor someone else brought up was pretty apt.

[Pinsir]

It doesn't mean the DCEU as a whole is doomed. I think WW84 will have hype surrounding it and if it delivers, it will do well. As will Aquaman 2 and, and a fresh start with The Batman will do well for Bats. But the brand is just not that strong overall, and it's not wrong to point that out.

No, disagree. Those 3 films you're citing are intended to be blockbusters, they have higher budgets and therefore greater advertising. If those films start failing, yeah, we can have a conversation, but I don't see how low budget films performing mildly is an indicator of anything.

Also, there is a difference between saying "MCU is a stronger brand than the DCEU," which is fine and "The DCEU brand is not a strong brand." which is indefensible. Like, if you don't think the DCEU is a good brand, then what is? Like seriously, what, Fast and Furious and the MCU?

[Agent Z]

Wonder Woman is one of the most iconic superheroes ever, the most famous female superhero and pretty much the only major success as a solo act that the Big Two have ever produced for most of their history. people have been clamoring her cinematic debut for a long time, and she was pretty much the only element of BvS that people liked. So a well received cameo in an otherwise bad movie + iconic status + long ass wait + good/great word of mouth, it's no surprise her film as a hit. Similarly, though he's often the punchline of jokes, Aquaman is a well known IP with a lot of history behind it with a popular actor. It's not surprising he did well either.

Shazam meanwhile is much less well known for the mainstream audience, and the DC brand is not reliable enough that they can slap it on anything at this point and get success for any character (like Marvel can with friggin' Ant-Man). And Shazam deserved more success than it go, but thankfully it didn't have a huge budget so it being a moderate success isn't the end of the world. But Harley as a solo act without the Joker or Batman, backed by more relatively obscure characters like the BOP and an R-rating on top of it and spinning off from the panned Suicide Squad, is less of a recipe for success. And it's a shame because the film sounds good (seeing it on Saturday), but there are factors to be considered here.

It doesn't mean the DCEU as a whole is doomed. I think WW84 will have hype surrounding it and if it delivers, it will do well. As will Aquaman 2 and, and a fresh start with The Batman will do well for Bats. But the brand is just not that strong overall, and it's not wrong to point that out.

Let's not act like Wonder Woman and Aquaman were guaranteed successes. Diana hadn't had a major adaptation since the Lynda Carter show. Aquaman's reputation was primarily as a joker for people who did know him and Jason Mamoa wasn't exactly major draw with many calling him a miscast.

[manwhohaseverything]

Is it just me Or did john campea just call harley quinn a side character of a side character? I never thought i would see people shitting on harley now. I remember the guy cosplaying harley when suicide squad came out. These guys change their minds pretty fast.i never thought i would feel bad for harley quinn character.

[Agent Z]

Is it just me Or did john campea just call harley quinn a side character of a side character? I never thought i would see people shitting on harley now. I remember the guy cosplaying harley when suicide squad came out. These guys change their minds pretty fast.i never thought i would feel bad for harley quinn character.

You haven't been on these boards much. People have been doing that ever since they started pushing her.

[manwhohaseverything]

You haven't been on these boards much. People have been doing that ever since they started pushing her.

They do on forums and stuff. Not outside, i am beginning to see that now. I have only seen superman and Aquaman get that treatment. Superman for his disguise, his costume and being boring. Aquaman for talking to fish.