DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Elmo]

Yeah sorry, I can't buy any of that. You can't say the email scene was simply promotion while also saying things weren't going to necessarily be connected. It was not only promoting a direct sequel, it was promoting Diana's solo film. If it as unrelated to Snyder's story, why was he given a story credit for WW and why were things set up in BvS that were followed up in Wonder Woman? Why did Batfleck and Erza's Flash cameo in Suicide Squad and why did that film reference Superman's death?

This whole "we don't care about continuity, everything is going to be independent" stuff really only came about after WW and Aquaman were their only real all around successes and the Synder stuff was a failed experiment. Before that, they were transparent about trying to tush into a shared Marvel-style universe. If they were always planning on slowing down and doing more stand alone films after that, they never got to it so we can't know for sure.



Yeah, I would like this too. At least Shazam was legitimately good and not embarrassing. Hopefully BOP does make a turn around

It's really really simple, but idk why it's so hard to grasp.
It's not an either or thing. It's not either they share a universe or they don't, it's that it doesn't and never did matter, and it wasn't anyone's priority. There was never a contingency to follow continuity. That doesn't mean the films were independent, and I never said they were independent. Everything was connecting what Snyder had been building. Technically, Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad possibly being in the same universe as MoS and BvS make zero difference to their standing as films. The connections aren't the point, regardless of if they're independent or not. And I think it was good for DC to come out and say that because fans have taken continuity and shared universes way too seriously. I feel that the fans and media have grasped onto this aspect of the films and embraced it more than studios have ever wanted to. Now that people are finally realizing it with their recent films they can keep putting out great movies without people constantly wondering what connects to what.

The point: are you physically able to watch separate films that share the same lore without connecting them to each other, or without seeing any connections as being significant? there is no importance. it's just DC.

[Agent Z]

Wonder Woman's definitely was. If you said her name to the average person on the street, they would at least have an idea of what she looks like and her basic iconography. She's referenced in pop culture a lot. That's more than most other DC or pre-MCU Marvel characters can claim. She's definitely a bigger deal now, but I think you're downplaying her status a bit to prove your point.

If you said Wonder Woman to the average person on the street they would tell you she was a DC superhero and what she looks like. They might be familiar with Steve Trevor, the Invisible Plane and Cheetah. They more likely wouldn't be familiar with Hippolyta, the Wonder Girls, any of the Amazons, supporting characters that aren't Steve, Diana being made from clay or any of her villains not named Cheetah. I am not downplaying her when I say that Diana wasn't that major until recently. Aside from the direct-to-DVD movie from 2009, she didn't have any solo adaptations between the end of the Lynda Carter show and the 2017 movie. People know who the Fantastic Four but that didn't help their movies.

Do movie's typically change their title in the second week if things are looking good?

Internationally, it has already made back its budget.

https://twitter.com/moviemazz/status...348319746?s=21

I think "But Aquaman!" is just as much an oversimplification as "all DCEU movies are doomed no matter what because of the first few movies."

The former at least acknowledges another part of the story while the latter is just more "the DCEU sucks" nonsense we've been getting since Man of Steel's release.

Some are definitely going into straight up bashing, but not everyone.

A damn large number of them sure.

I agree with what Holt said earlier in that it sometimes seems that ANY criticism or attempt to understand some of the DCEU's success vs. failures is labeled as bashing or the "sky is falling" when it isn't.

Holt's comments have barely acknowledged the DCEU successes and have ignored that up until JL, none of the movies could remotely be called a flop. Even when they did acknowledge they made money they pulled the "they could have made more" card which has always been a cop out when people want to call something they didn't like a flop. If something doesn't make "all the money" it's a flop to online nerds these days. See Star Wars which got this treatment even when TLJ was the highest grossing movie of 2017.

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, though they arent as numerous, we have the DCEU fans who bash the MCU or older DC movies. Or the some of the more extreme trolls in the #SnyderCut group.

And rightfully get called out on it without people resorting to the "they're just trying to understand where they went wrong" dog whistle.

[Frontier]

It's really really simple, but idk why it's so hard to grasp.
It's not an either or thing. It's not either they share a universe or they don't, it's that it doesn't and never did matter, and it wasn't anyone's priority. There was never a contingency to follow continuity. That doesn't mean the films were independent, and I never said they were independent. Everything was connecting what Snyder had been building. Technically, Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad possibly being in the same universe as MoS and BvS make zero difference to their standing as films. The connections aren't the point, regardless of if they're independent or not. And I think it was good for DC to come out and say that because fans have taken continuity and shared universes way too seriously. I feel that the fans and media have grasped onto this aspect of the films and embraced it more than studios have ever wanted to. Now that people are finally realizing it with their recent films they can keep putting out great movies without people constantly wondering what connects to what.

The point: are you physically able to watch separate films that share the same lore without connecting them to each other, or without seeing any connections as being significant? there is no importance. it's just DC.

I mean, I think it's pretty simple that WB/DC were planning a Superhero cinematic universe with Snyder's films as their inception and when that didn't pan out they started emphasizing the films as standalones.

If you said Wonder Woman to the average person on the street they would tell you she was a DC superhero and what she looks like. They might be familiar with Steve Trevor, the Invisible Plane and Cheetah. They more likely wouldn't be familiar with Hippolyta, the Wonder Girls, any of the Amazons, supporting characters that aren't Steve, Diana being made from clay or any of her villains not named Cheetah. I am not downplaying her when I say that Diana wasn't that major until recently. Aside from the direct-to-DVD movie from 2009, she didn't have any solo adaptations between the end of the Lynda Carter show and the 2017 movie.

She's still a cultural icon even if certain elements of her mythos weren't as deep into the public consciousness thanks to a lack of media adaptions.

[Gaastra]

Internationally, it has already made back its budget.

It's projected that “Birds of Prey” will need to garner a whopping $250 million to $300 million globally just to break even, according to Entertainment Weekly.

https://nypost.com/2020/02/11/birds-...at-box-office/

[Vordan]

https://nypost.com/2020/02/11/birds-...at-box-office/

People fail to understand how things work. The studios don’t get 100% of the profits, the theaters take a cut for example. Rule of thumb iirc is that a movie needs to make twice its budget just to break even.

[stargazer01]

People fail to understand how things work. The studios don’t get 100% of the profits, the theaters take a cut for example. Rule of thumb iirc is that a movie needs to make twice its budget just to break even.

There is also the $ they spent in advertising it. This movie better get strong legs or it's going to lose $. You'd think Margot Robbie was more popular with all the movies she has done recently. Suicide Squad even sold more in home media than BvS... Ewan Mcgregor isn't a big draw either.

I saw the movie last Friday. I wasn't very excited but I got more curious after the glowing reviews. I liked it, but it didn't impressed me at all. It's good not great for me. It doesn't look like a must watch honestly, unless you a big fan of the cast/characters. Huntress was my fave, by there wasn't enough of her. Also liked Canary more than I thought, but man those outfits still aren't very good, especially her outfit at the very end. Ugly.

[stargazer01]

there never was the "DCEU" was never an official term, and all we ever knew was that Snyder's films followed a narrative that some other one-off films may or may not be connected to. so again, there was never a DCEU. the way it is now is how they always envisioned it.



I don't think there's any evidence out there that they ever were concerned about that.

except, MOS, BvS, WW, SS, JL, Shazam and Aquaman are all connected and don't have big contradictions. Ezra Flash and Fisher Cyborg movies were going to be in the same universe obviously. The only movies that don't look part of the same universe are The Batman and clearly Joker.

[Pinsir]

I don't see why it would have to make 300 mill to recoup its costs, that is more than 3x its cost. If it makes 200 mill it should be profitable.

[Frontier]

except, MOS, BvS, WW, SS, JL, Shazam and Aquaman are all connected and don't have big contradictions. Ezra Flash and Fisher Cyborg movies were going to be in the same universe obviously. The only movies that don't look part of the same universe are The Batman and clearly Joker.

And even when The Batman was originally being produced it was meant to be in the same universe since it was going to be Affleck's solo film.

[Jokerz79]

I don't see why it would have to make 300 mill to recoup its costs, that is more than 3x its cost. If it makes 200 mill it should be profitable.

Because whatever the budget it's safe math to add 50 to 100 million more for advertising for any big budget film. Then Studios only get about 65% or less of the box office with the actual theaters getting the rest and that Studio percentage is less over seas so that's how you get numbers like 250 to 300 million to break even for BOP.

[Ascended]

Yeah sorry, I can't buy any of that. You can't say the email scene was simply promotion while also saying things weren't going to necessarily be connected. It was not only promoting a direct sequel, it was promoting Diana's solo film. If it as unrelated to Snyder's story, why was he given a story credit for WW and why were things set up in BvS that were followed up in Wonder Woman? Why did Batfleck and Erza's Flash cameo in Suicide Squad and why did that film reference Superman's death?

This whole "we don't care about continuity, everything is going to be independent" stuff really only came about after WW and Aquaman were their only real all around successes and the Synder stuff was a failed experiment. Before that, they were transparent about trying to tush into a shared Marvel-style universe. If they were always planning on slowing down and doing more stand alone films after that, they never got to it so we can't know for sure.

I mean, I'd believe that WB always planned on doing a couple films outside the main continuity. Sure, I buy that. But the idea that they weren't building a shared universe is just....I mean, come on. Everything they did from BvS to JL was clearly designed around a shared universe. The fact that things imploded and most of those films never got made is nothing more than a blessing, but it doesn't change the fact that the plan was a shared universe, and all of the films they planned on making were spinning out of that. Or at least 95% of the films they planned to make, maybe I'm forgetting one or two that weren't.

But then JL did what it did, while Wonder Woman and Aquaman managed to do well, and now the plan is to do stuff that stands on its own more. But the plan now is obviously not what the plan was back when they were doing BvS. They even said as much in an interview a while back, about how they were going to focus on solo IP's instead of worrying about interconnectivity.

Yeah, I would like this too. At least Shazam was legitimately good and not embarrassing. Hopefully BOP does make a turn around

I mean....it wasn't bad. But I don't get all the love Shazam gets. I liked it well enough, it was fun and I'd watch a sequel but I think it was a pretty average film and only looks good when compared to the bad DC movies.

[stargazer01]

For me Shazam was very good as a family movie. I can say I loved it because it was very funny, charming and heartfelt. The kid actors did a very good job, especially Freddy.

I wasn't impressed with the action. It wasn't epic enough, but for the budget it looked more than fine. I cared about all the kids, they were very likable. I found the drama in the movie more powerful than Batman V Superman and that saddens me. I felt more sad for Billy when his mother rejected him than for Superman's death. :/

[Pinsir]

Because whatever the budget it's safe math to add 50 to 100 million more for advertising for any big budget film. Then Studios only get about 65% or less of the box office with the actual theaters getting the rest and that Studio percentage is less over seas so that's how you get numbers like 250 to 300 million to break even for BOP.

If you're basically saying you need to make 3x (its actually more like 3.4x for 300 mill) the cost for a film to be profitable then there are far more flops out that are never considered as such and these include films that had sequels made from them. There are two Phase 1 MCU films that didn't even make double their budget (Cap 1 and Hulk), Thor 1 would break and only Iron Man 1, 2 and Avengers obviously would have made a profit. I just don't see the margins being that low.

[Elmo]

I mean, I'd believe that WB always planned on doing a couple films outside the main continuity. Sure, I buy that. But the idea that they weren't building a shared universe is just....I mean, come on. Everything they did from BvS to JL was clearly designed around a shared universe. The fact that things imploded and most of those films never got made is nothing more than a blessing, but it doesn't change the fact that the plan was a shared universe, and all of the films they planned on making were spinning out of that. Or at least 95% of the films they planned to make, maybe I'm forgetting one or two that weren't.

But then JL did what it did, while Wonder Woman and Aquaman managed to do well, and now the plan is to do stuff that stands on its own more. But the plan now is obviously not what the plan was back when they were doing BvS. They even said as much in an interview a while back, about how they were going to focus on solo IP's instead of worrying about interconnectivity.



I mean....it wasn't bad. But I don't get all the love Shazam gets. I liked it well enough, it was fun and I'd watch a sequel but I think it was a pretty average film and only looks good when compared to the bad DC movies.

The plan was not a shared universe though.

They had some connections but the priority was adapting their characters.

why is this such a huge deal? not everything has to be in a shared universe. a shared universe doesn't have to be everyone's goal.

[SiegePerilous02]

The plan was not a shared universe though.

They had some connections but the priority was adapting their characters.

why is this such a huge deal? not everything has to be in a shared universe. a shared universe doesn't have to be everyone's goal.

No, not everything has to be a shared universe. But it was very clearly their goal initially.
You have to ignore plenty of very visible evidence to come to the conclusion that it wasn't.

Nobody is really making a big deal here about it no longer being the case. Just calling it like it very clearly is.