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  1. #1576
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I have nothing against Margot Robbie or Harley Quinn, but it is confusing that after one team movie which had debatable success, Warner Bros. is pushing an entire franchise around her character. I have to wonder what kind of analysis led them to make this decision--and how might other characters and actors win the same treatment?

    You'd think that Wonder Woman would have been the big winner. But they've only planned one more movie with Gal Gadot, so far. Maybe the results of JUSTICE LEAGUE convinced them that she doesn't have enough heat. But how would you make that analysis?
    I can just about guarantee that there will be a third Wonder Woman film. The reason you don't hear about it is likely because Patty Jenkins and Gal Gadot already are contracted for it, and it was done as part of their negotiations for WW84. Why talk about the third film when you are still making the second?

    Margot Robbie and Harley Quinn was in a different situation. Suicide Squad was a mix, Harley Quinn was a hit. Thus lots of different pitches over at WB, and Margot Robbie thinks like a producer and marketer rather than an actor or director.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
    Almost $800 Million for a team movie with a bad critical reception is debateable success? I agree with the rest of your post, but I'm not sure the box office success is very debateable. A film with a ton of characters the general audience had not heard of (outside of Harley and....maybe Croc) sold nearly 800 million dollars worth of tickets and was a merchandising juggernaut. It resonated with a lot of non-comics viewers, and I think we all as comic fans need to get out of this cycle of considering movies a success only if we personally like them. I'm not saying that's what you are doing Jim, just saying it in general.
    Suicide Squad was a box office success yes (I have no idea on how it worked merchandising-wise), but it was a clear failure among critics. A second-weekend drop of 67.4% shows that it got rather bad word of mouth among actual viewers. In a way, I'd argue that the way it was heavily marketed "helped" to pave the way for the failure of Justice League.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    No way dude. Pretty sure Marvel has all their actors sign contracts that prohibit them from doing DC work.
    Unless the actors were full-time hires by Marvel (or Disney as a whole), I believe the Actor's Guild and various anti-trust laws would come down very hard on such a practice.

  2. #1577
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Margot Robbie and Harley Quinn was in a different situation. Suicide Squad was a mix, Harley Quinn was a hit. Thus lots of different pitches over at WB, and Margot Robbie thinks like a producer and marketer rather than an actor or director.
    But how do they make that determination? What kind of research and analysis do they do to determine that Robbie was the hit with audiences and not Will Smith, Joel Kinnaman, Viola Davis or Jared Leto? They can't really go by fan posts--that's anecdotal evidence and unreliable. They must have an objective way to determine which actors in a movie have the best Q score. I'm curious to know how that works.

    However, I do think it's all about representation. Some actors have better representation than others. While it might be that Gal Gadot's people got her a good deal for WONDER WOMAN 1984--it's Robbie who is getting all the good roles in movies. I would think Gadot would be working a lot, with the push she got from WONDER WOMAN. But other than voice work and cameos, the only role she's had was in JUSTICE LEAGUE. At the same time, Robbie has been in five movies and will be in three more before BIRDS OF PREY or WONDER WOMAN 1984 are released. Gadot's people haven't been able to parlay her Wonder Woman success into anything else but playing Wonder Woman.
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  3. #1578
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    But how do they make that determination? What kind of research and analysis do they do to determine that Robbie was the hit with audiences and not Will Smith, Joel Kinnaman, Viola Davis or Jared Leto? They can't really go by fan posts--that's anecdotal evidence and unreliable. They must have an objective way to determine which actors in a movie have the best Q score. I'm curious to know how that works.
    At a guess, they can look at reviews, analysis of merchandising sales, and analysis of trends and mentions on the net. Fan posts are part of the last one. In the end, a lot will still come down to gut feelings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    However, I do think it's all about representation. Some actors have better representation than others. While it might be that Gal Gadot's people got her a good deal for WONDER WOMAN 1984--it's Robbie who is getting all the good roles in movies. I would think Gadot would be working a lot, with the push she got from WONDER WOMAN. But other than voice work and cameos, the only role she's had was in JUSTICE LEAGUE. At the same time, Robbie has been in five movies and will be in three more before BIRDS OF PREY or WONDER WOMAN 1984 are released. Gadot's people haven't been able to parlay her Wonder Woman success into anything else but playing Wonder Woman.
    Gadot also had a child in March 2017, so there you have a good reason for why she would choose to put her acting career on the backburner for a while, until it was time to start WW84. I have also seen her in at least one high-profile advertising campaign.

    I think the difference can just as easily explained by personality and life choices as how their agents work. Margot Robbie has shown that she is willing to pitch herself hard and that she is a versatile and accomplished actor. Remember that she was a nominee for best actress in the 2018 Oscars with I, Tonya; her take-off in acting roles likely comes down much more to that than to Suicide Squad.

  4. #1579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I have nothing against Margot Robbie or Harley Quinn, but it is confusing that after one team movie which had debatable success, Warner Bros. is pushing an entire franchise around her character. I have to wonder what kind of analysis led them to make this decision--and how might other characters and actors win the same treatment?

    You'd think that Wonder Woman would have been the big winner. But they've only planned one more movie with Gal Gadot, so far. Maybe the results of JUSTICE LEAGUE convinced them that she doesn't have enough heat. But how would you make that analysis?
    I've brought this up a few times and it's very odd that WB waits 4 years after HQ was last seen on the big screen and now they are planning to bombard the general public with at least 3 movies. If she was such a 'hit' why the long wait? It really doesn't make sense. Ryan Reynolds' Deadpool is way more popular but when Fox owned the rights they weren't planning on using him as much as Robbie's HQ. There were so many 'planned' projects of her it was laughable.
    Last edited by Colossus1980; 01-18-2019 at 01:49 AM.

  5. #1580
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    Quote Originally Posted by golgi View Post
    Who would have thought, even after Justice League's BO bomb.
    BumbleBee had no chance at the BO then. It was coming after two diminishing Transformer movies that made even less than the JL.

  6. #1581
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    No way dude. Pretty sure Marvel has all their actors sign contracts that prohibit them from doing DC work.
    That's a myth and I'm pretty sure Mysterio is a one and done.

  7. #1582
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    Why complain about it? If you don't like it, move on.
    Nice philosophy but what would the point be of this thread or this whole site if I couldn't talk about which characters annoy me which don't. I mean what are you expecting here. Do you ask everyone on here why they complain? That seems pretty hefty. Good luck to you dude, it'll take a lifetime
    Last edited by Elmo; 01-18-2019 at 03:09 AM.
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  8. #1583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I have nothing against Margot Robbie or Harley Quinn, but it is confusing that after one team movie which had debatable success, Warner Bros. is pushing an entire franchise around her character. I have to wonder what kind of analysis led them to make this decision--and how might other characters and actors win the same treatment?

    You'd think that Wonder Woman would have been the big winner. But they've only planned one more movie with Gal Gadot, so far. Maybe the results of JUSTICE LEAGUE convinced them that she doesn't have enough heat. But how would you make that analysis?

    It worries me a little because WB has this habit of making big plans around a character or a set of characters and building up our hopes for great things to come, only to pull the plug when a movie doesn't perform to their expectations.

    I thought it was obvious ? Her Merchandise sells insanely well.

  9. #1584
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    BumbleBee had no chance at the BO then. It was coming after two diminishing Transformer movies that made even less than the JL.
    The only transformers films that did bad was the 86 animated film and the last knight. (and the gobots film now that Hasbro owns them) Transformers 4 did a billion at the box office thanks to china! (aquaman and fatf also got a huge boost from china)

    Did jl make a billion? If not then transformers made more.

  10. #1585
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    But how do they make that determination? What kind of research and analysis do they do to determine that Robbie was the hit with audiences and not Will Smith, Joel Kinnaman, Viola Davis or Jared Leto? They can't really go by fan posts--that's anecdotal evidence and unreliable. They must have an objective way to determine which actors in a movie have the best Q score. I'm curious to know how that works.

    However, I do think it's all about representation. Some actors have better representation than others. While it might be that Gal Gadot's people got her a good deal for WONDER WOMAN 1984--it's Robbie who is getting all the good roles in movies. I would think Gadot would be working a lot, with the push she got from WONDER WOMAN. But other than voice work and cameos, the only role she's had was in JUSTICE LEAGUE. At the same time, Robbie has been in five movies and will be in three more before BIRDS OF PREY or WONDER WOMAN 1984 are released. Gadot's people haven't been able to parlay her Wonder Woman success into anything else but playing Wonder Woman.
    A lot of women went as Harley for Halloween after the movie came out.

  11. #1586
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    I've brought this up a few times and it's very odd that WB waits 4 years after HQ was last seen on the big screen and now they are planning to bombard the general public with at least 3 movies. If she was such a 'hit' why the long wait? It really doesn't make sense. Ryan Reynolds' Deadpool is way more popular but when Fox owned the rights they weren't planning on using him as much as Robbie's HQ. There were so many 'planned' projects of her it was laughable.
    That's what I'm driving at. It seems strange. And if they have just anecdotal evidence but no hard facts for planning all these movies, it worries me. Anecdotal evidence (opinions, gut feelings, subjective reasoning) is not reliable. WB has this pattern of building a house of cards and then, when one card goes wrong, it all falls down. So while you might not care about Harley Quinn (I'm indifferent), other planned movies you do care about will be affected if her movies go wrong.
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  12. #1587
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    All this news
    I'm more worried about Suicide Squad 2 now though
    Looks like Robbie and a few others have quietly exited that project since Gunn was given the keys and WB not missing an opportunity is already gearing up a Harley Quinn trilogy.

    I would definitely not want a BOP vs GCS movie though unless batgirl is introduced first
    Do something like GCS v Batman/Batgirl

    WB really needs to recast Batman Affleck is not worth it

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post

    However, I do think it's all about representation. Some actors have better representation than others. While it might be that Gal Gadot's people got her a good deal for WONDER WOMAN 1984--it's Robbie who is getting all the good roles in movies. I would think Gadot would be working a lot, with the push she got from WONDER WOMAN. But other than voice work and cameos, the only role she's had was in JUSTICE LEAGUE. At the same time, Robbie has been in five movies and will be in three more before BIRDS OF PREY or WONDER WOMAN 1984 are released. Gadot's people haven't been able to parlay her Wonder Woman success into anything else but playing Wonder Woman.
    There's this thing called talent and hard work
    Gal Gadot's current career reflects her career before WW
    She is not a good actress and the movies she picks are not good and subsequently do bad at the box office. Since she is not known as a good actress and has come no where close to an oscar nomination for any of her work she has to be marketed as a "star" with box office power unfortunately her biggest movies are WW and JL which are huge genre movies not indicative of her star power. The biggest thing she has going for her is playing WW and maybe a cameo in the fast and the furious movies

    Margot Robbie on the other hand is like night and day
    a very good actress and is gets awards buzz and nominations for oscars almost every year. With Suicide Squad she was able to increase her value
    She is very careful about what movies she does and generally even if they are bad her performances stand out giving her a reputation as someone who doesn't just do movies for money.
    WB gave her a first look deal because they want to keep her with the studio. Along with the deal comes power
    So now every project featuring Harley is on the table in some form and Margot Robbie gets to pick and choose which ones go forward
    Last edited by Nite-Wing; 01-18-2019 at 07:26 AM.

  13. #1588
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    But how do they make that determination? What kind of research and analysis do they do to determine that Robbie was the hit with audiences and not Will Smith, Joel Kinnaman, Viola Davis or Jared Leto? They can't really go by fan posts--that's anecdotal evidence and unreliable. They must have an objective way to determine which actors in a movie have the best Q score. I'm curious to know how that works.

    However, I do think it's all about representation. Some actors have better representation than others. While it might be that Gal Gadot's people got her a good deal for WONDER WOMAN 1984--it's Robbie who is getting all the good roles in movies. I would think Gadot would be working a lot, with the push she got from WONDER WOMAN. But other than voice work and cameos, the only role she's had was in JUSTICE LEAGUE. At the same time, Robbie has been in five movies and will be in three more before BIRDS OF PREY or WONDER WOMAN 1984 are released. Gadot's people haven't been able to parlay her Wonder Woman success into anything else but playing Wonder Woman.
    Merchandising would be the reason. From what I understand, Harley Quinn merch sells like crazy. I do think doing a BoP vs. GCS movie just seems dumb though lol. At least change the title. The current BoP title sucks too

    And her having a better career than Gadot isn't surprising. She's a much better actor. Gal ended up being a great fit for Diana and fit exactly what Patty wanted but I still think she's a pretty limited actor overall.
    DC, hurry up and make your own version of Marvel Unlimited!

  14. #1589
    Fantastic Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    But how do they make that determination? What kind of research and analysis do they do to determine that Robbie was the hit with audiences and not Will Smith, Joel Kinnaman, Viola Davis or Jared Leto? They can't really go by fan posts--that's anecdotal evidence and unreliable. They must have an objective way to determine which actors in a movie have the best Q score. I'm curious to know how that works.

    However, I do think it's all about representation. Some actors have better representation than others. While it might be that Gal Gadot's people got her a good deal for WONDER WOMAN 1984--it's Robbie who is getting all the good roles in movies. I would think Gadot would be working a lot, with the push she got from WONDER WOMAN. But other than voice work and cameos, the only role she's had was in JUSTICE LEAGUE. At the same time, Robbie has been in five movies and will be in three more before BIRDS OF PREY or WONDER WOMAN 1984 are released. Gadot's people haven't been able to parlay her Wonder Woman success into anything else but playing Wonder Woman.
    It's fairly obvious who the draw and breakout hit of Suicide Squad was from the first trailer to the end credits.
    It was Harley Quinn, and Joker to a lesser extent.

  15. #1590
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    The only transformers films that did bad was the 86 animated film and the last knight. (and the gobots film now that Hasbro owns them) Transformers 4 did a billion at the box office thanks to china! (aquaman and fatf also got a huge boost from china)

    Did jl make a billion? If not then transformers made more.
    Transformers is one of the most successful film franchises right now even with the blunder that was TLK. Regardless though that blunder was enough to make them want to scrap the whole universe and use Bumblebee as a soft reboot
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